I use linux but I fix windows installations for my famly
I started this thread so that otheres may vent about windblows or vent about Microshaft and after fitghing windoez I think I'm not the olny one with a bit?? about it
Posted on 2003-02-12 17:10:07 by rob.rice
hm. i noticed your other post about open doors, etc. (which i don't really understand)... anyway, i don't think this Crusades folder is meant for this kind of crusade :grin:

i'm personally a Mac addict. and what should i be thinking about?

i hope this thread doesn't become a flamewar :rolleyes:
Posted on 2003-02-12 17:54:51 by jademtech
each OS has its strong and weak sides, learn to find them both and use them to your advantage and you'll be fine :)


MACs weak side is their outrageous price for underperforming hardware. ( :grin: )
Posted on 2003-02-12 18:00:19 by Hiroshimator
and the same can be sed about windoze and you can add buggie ,bloated and slow

there is nothing better about windoze
Posted on 2003-02-12 19:04:33 by rob.rice
heh im so happy windows hasnt crashed all day :):alright:
Posted on 2003-02-12 19:17:23 by HeXeN
windows hasn't crashed for me in about 2.7 years now :) (and even before that on win NT it crashed rarely)

long live win2K

I do wonder what you're doing on a windows programmers forum with such an expressed love for the win32 platform rob.rice :)

I gather it makes quite an odd mariage :)
Posted on 2003-02-12 19:54:39 by Hiroshimator
Well, bashing isn't likely to solve problems. After all, all of us here try to understand and utilize OS features at the lowest level, which may include work-arounds and/or exploiting misfeatures, don't we?

I'm not defending Windows. I don't use it unless I'm forced to (mainly for money).

Now that the OP alludes (implicit) comparison between linux and Windows... One thing I have observed for last 5-6 years since the linux boom in late 90's is that more and more linux users express hatred against other OSes, especially Windows family, yet they cannot kick Windows out of their machines. This is detrimental to everyone. Much of development effort went to clones of some Win32 programs, rather than creating better linux (the kernel). The linux kernel still suffers from many defects, one of which is networking. On the other hand, all kinds of eye-candies are created in two big camps, with reinventing whole lot of wheels.

Anyhow, linux (as distro) is not dominantly better than everything else contrary to many linux users' belief. One funny linux advocacy claims that linux is more stable than Windows and at the same time linux has more apps than other (non-Win32) OSes. When you turn the table around, the same statement can be reparaphrased to attack linux: linux (as distro) suffers from lack of apps compared to Win32 and from lack of stability compared to other OSes.

So, let's drop all bashing , and let's create something useful. Let's not turn this forum into a garbage dump like /.
Posted on 2003-02-12 20:07:07 by Starless
ok here is a thought for you when what ever replaces
XP comes out you as a programmer could be sued by
MS if you have information about there API dont beleve
me check out how MS was handed the farm in there last court case MS won that one for sure

I am not bashing windoze Iam saying that it has given me a lot of greaf ( and I will bet it has done the same to others) it is buggie ( boot from a floppy not formated by windows and it will mess up windows) it is bloated (windows xp needs 3giga bytes to run ) it is slow (I have seen programs on a 166mhz 64 meg ram computer run faster with linux than the same program on a 2.4 GHZ 256 meg ram under XP)
this is what I have seen why tell me I am wrong for pointing it out

I haven't tryed the other unix OSs and will admet I don't
know how thay are

I am trying to saying that there IS something better than windoze

as far as net working the olny networking problem I have ever had with linux was when the windoze eathernet driver installtion script rewrote the addresses in my eathernet card such that linux could not find it when I put back the defaults in the cards eeprom linux found and used it just fine untill windoze reinstalled its driver WITHOUT ASKING

if your version of ppp and other protocols are out of sync with your kernel you will have networking problems
Posted on 2003-02-12 21:44:28 by rob.rice
Is this topic beating a dead horse?
Posted on 2003-02-12 23:28:59 by drhowarddrfine

Is this topic beating a dead horse?


Exactly. :)
As long as there are recent converts to non-windows OS, that poor dead horse will be repeatedly claimed as alive.

But, I learned something new here. I did not know that EEPROM can be overwritten at the software level. That was the only obstacle to my netboot X-terminal project. Now I can go for it. :alright:

rob.rice, you might want to consider reading the source code. When you do, you will see what I meant in the previous posting. Network code was just one example. Sure, it is better now than it was a few years ago after a few complete rewriting attempts, yet it is not better than others. Anyhow, the code says itself much more eloquently than my babble.
Posted on 2003-02-12 23:58:38 by Starless
All modern operating systems are very complicated;that's the source of problems
Posted on 2003-02-13 03:23:02 by Vortex


MACs weak side is their outrageous price for underperforming hardware. ( :grin: )


All the graphic artists i've ever worked with either use a mac, or want a mac - i think at design school apple host a hynosis class - 'you all will use macs, you all will use macs.....'

a mac cant compete with a 3d accelerated pc these days, and they are soooo expensive, and no support t speak of (well at least in this country)
Posted on 2003-02-13 03:46:27 by Terab
After recently having learnt the LINUX advantage, win98 is a rocket in comparison, I installed redhat about 5 times and while the command line was fine if you could find a use for it, the KDE and other interfaces were truly pathetic they were so slow.

I turned off every service that could be done while leaving the box still running and the interface was still pathetic. Redhat was one of the worst most buggy installations I have ever seen and half of the options did not work and the install locked up part way through.

I know LINUX makes good web servers and similar as it only runs command line but as a graphical user interface, the performance is so poor, it appalled me. I put it on an AMD 550 that I have reset up with win98 and the comparison would knock you over, its so large.

Running a command line may be fine on a 200 mmx but try running one of the pathetic graphics front ends and you will understand why windows, irritations and all eats it alive.

Regards,

hutch@movsd.com
Posted on 2003-02-13 04:12:19 by hutch--

Is this topic beating a dead horse?


more like flogging a daft duck ;)
Posted on 2003-02-13 05:26:36 by Hiroshimator
I run slack ware your are right about kde
but have you tryed gnome+Enlightenment ,Next Step ,ice,twm,kdm,fvwm2,AmotherLevel,afterstep,mwm
my point in this post is linux you can have it your way
another point you may have missed is linux programs
use olny about 20%to 30% of the space because
thay all use the same set of run time libs and DLLs

red hat 7.0 was shiped with buggie libs but it will run
to the point that it can be fixed over the internet

about the install crash you may not have gotten your video card settings quite right and diden't waite long enought or your video clock settings were way wrong that could cause a crash

about it being slow did you check to see if it was set up right a Linux system that isen't set up right will be slow
did you give any swap space? or too little

about size did you even look at what all you had on that
hard drive
perl
python
C
C++
ANSI C
OOC
lisp 2 versions of it 3 if you count emacs
emacs
abi word
corel office suite
java
tcl
tk
Motif
kernel sources
fortran
pascal
2 spread sheets one for CLI one for GUI
editors about 6 of them
command shells about 4 of them
fonts about 50 of then
gost script
fsf utils
any kind of networking softwaer you could want
IF you had to buy all that soft ware it would cost you
the last number I saw was with source code $250,000.00
but my guess would be $25,000
plus anything can be up graded to late gratest
at any tine for free
BTW want some FREE software check out www.gnu.org thay do have stuff for windows
Posted on 2003-02-13 10:54:58 by rob.rice



Exactly. :)
As long as there are recent converts to non-windows OS, that poor dead horse will be repeatedly claimed as alive.

But, I learned something new here. I did not know that EEPROM can be overwritten at the software level. That was the only obstacle to my netboot X-terminal project. Now I can go for it. :alright:

rob.rice, you might want to consider reading the source code. When you do, you will see what I meant in the previous posting. Network code was just one example. Sure, it is better now than it was a few years ago after a few complete rewriting attempts, yet it is not better than others. Anyhow, the code says itself much more eloquently than my babble.


starless are you making a diskless node or something? I have some links on that I think.

http://www.ltsp.org/documentation/index.php
http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/Diskless-HOWTO.html
Posted on 2003-02-13 12:22:54 by Hiroshimator
What do you think about the future release XP/Longhorn?
Posted on 2003-02-13 12:52:24 by Vortex


Thanks, but I have already read it. As a matter of fact, reading it a while ago was the motivation to consider turning my old PC into X-terminal. (I just love X11. :) ) Only barrier was burning EEPROM without buying a special device.

However, re-reading it did not reveal how to write to an EEPROM without burning it using a separate device. Maybe rob.rice can contribute to the document maintainer about how to do that. :grin:
Posted on 2003-02-13 19:42:32 by Starless
I forget where I found it but I was hunting for a way
to get my asante friendlynet card working under linux
the first thing I found out is the addressses the card
responds to under windows were not the same as the
default addresses built in to the card (so says asante)
when hunting around the internet
I found a web site with diagnostic tools for eather net
cards or maybe pcmcia cards I don't rember where it was BUT I do rember that
I searched google.com/linux for ` "eathernet diagnostic" '
when I found a set of eather net toolswriten in C and one of them was the one I used to rewrite the eeproms
in my asante card I don't know that it matters but my card is a pcmcia card I'll look around if I find it I will email you
but you may find it on the net befor I find it in my stuff
but I'm sure I have it on a floppy somewere
Posted on 2003-02-14 20:31:43 by rob.rice
um... is eathernet a misspelling/alternate spelling of ethernet? google.com/linux showed some results. also, it didn't offer me an alternate spelling.
Posted on 2003-02-14 22:03:00 by jademtech