I don't think MS will clean up Win32API and replace with wrapper stuff.
I think it will be the extension of Win32API or the extension of COM, COM++
As you know in the history, the completely replacement will become the bad things.
The Win32API make windows apps stable, flexible and MS known that. They don't try to kill Win32 API, the magic that make MS become the biggest software company in the world, kill Win32API is killed themselves.
Posted on 2003-05-08 02:06:07 by nhnpresario

Well my OS has about 10-15 API functions with only 1-2 documented on site curently ... and growing :P
So i will catch them up soon ... :)
Besides i will always have API and not scripts ...


Don't worry Bogdan, no matter how many bucks and dirty marketing strategies, at the end simplicity will win, simply because with less (hardware, money, time) you will get more (features, security, speed).

Windows is getting crappy at the same rate as they got before. If not, what in the world will impose someone to buy a PentiumVII to write a letter and send it by email?
Posted on 2003-05-08 05:34:03 by pelaillo
wasn't XML db thingi ? ... aka technology :PP :grin:
Posted on 2003-05-11 01:48:45 by wizzra
New article concerning the Win32 API in LongHorn

"In short, Longhorn is the .NET version of Windows which finalizes the replacement of the WIN32 API with a managed system, as well as a massive rethink as to the way developers write applications for Windows and consumers interact with their computers."

"Longhorn will be the first operating system where ALL functionality is designed to be accessed through managed code. WIN32?s reign as the Windows API has ended, replaced by managed .NET APIs."

More: http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1107_2-5101117.html
Posted on 2003-11-04 08:43:16 by Masmer
how much _slower_ is managed code compared to asm? ("maganed code" sounds like "VB code", thus slow)

Don't worry Bogdan, no matter how many bucks and dirty marketing strategies, at the end simplicity will win, simply because with less (hardware, money, time) you will get more (features, security, speed).

"Less is more"... :P :alright:
Posted on 2003-11-04 14:19:29 by scientica
Well, many of the Win32 API functions are hardly used and quite a few's usage is not recommended, a clean up probably will make things easier but I doubt.
Posted on 2003-11-04 19:51:05 by x86asm
How could MS think people will move to another version of Windows if it is slower and just looks prettier? ...oh, wait -- that is what happened with WinXP. :)
Posted on 2003-11-04 20:42:28 by bitRAKE
Longhorn is just a delivery system for Avalon, Microsoft's weapon against all of the companies and systems that have been nagging it over the past few years. Macromedia has been repositioning itself as a GUI system from a vector graphics system for the web, Microsoft sees this as a direct attack and is answering with XAML which is a markup language using Direct3D as it's primary graphics engine and full hardware acceleration support. This may also proove to be the final nail for Java, another thorn in Microsoft's side, it can not compete with a fully integrated engine where the OS is designed to work with the engine and not visa versa. Lastly it is a head on direct attack at Linux, apparently Avalon will only run on IIS on Windows servers, Microsoft is betting that the users will be so enamoured by the flashy Avalon that it will become mandatory, spelling the end of Linux servers. This has nothing to do with cleaning up the API or empowering Windows, those are just candy coating for the anti-trust suit that will inevitably come, this is about crushing any remaining competition on the web and positioning Microsoft as the only true OS provider while making an engine based OS that it can legally restrict the usage of by any third party it deems a threat.
Posted on 2003-11-04 21:39:31 by donkey
Linuix will survive, wil adapt, sooner or later if it becomes a such "success" (catasrophe?) there will be those who makes linux ports/emulators. I've seen somewhere in the internet that some people even has begin with .net for linux.

I wonder will longhorn give the user a flashy 3D BSOD with a mega boom sournd sound effect that kills the subwoofer when it crashes..?
Posted on 2003-11-04 23:43:08 by scientica
Call me stupid, but what the hell is .NET anyways? ((I know is some super HLL but the legistics in a nut-shell of how it is different from ASM/C++/VB i dont get)). As for the latter i know that C++ is an overglorified macro language, and VB is nothing more than COM calling.. But .NET and its XML ties i dont get....
Posted on 2003-11-09 19:48:58 by NaN

But .NET and its XML ties i dont get....
Just more dynamic signaling between applications if you ask me - granted the applications can be in different parts of the world and written in different programming languages, but beyond that it is nothing special. Some other languages have been preaching this for several years, but .NET is suppose to deliver where the others have 'failed'? Time and enough hype - we might see it. :grin:
Posted on 2003-11-09 20:17:26 by bitRAKE
Though IL is good looking but I still more like programming in MASM than IL.
Posted on 2003-11-12 22:29:06 by dreamweaver
Lastly it is a head on direct attack at Linux, apparently Avalon will only run on IIS on Windows servers, Microsoft is betting that the users will be so enamoured by the flashy Avalon that it will become mandatory, spelling the end of Linux servers. This has nothing to do with cleaning up the API or empowering Windows, those are just candy coating for the anti-trust suit that will inevitably come, this is about crushing any remaining competition on the web and positioning Microsoft as the only true OS provider while making an engine based OS that it can legally restrict the usage of by any third party it deems a threat.
I just got my first decent look at Longhorn yesterday (this is only alpha code that has been released to MSDN subscribers and various MS partners of value), it took over 10 minutes to load onto a late model laptop :eek:
Sorry to contradict you donkey, but Avalon has nothing to do with IIS; Avalon is the graphics subsystem and IIS is nothing but a webserver that is supposed to output HTML. XAML is very similar to ASP.NET, you have your GUI elements represented in a markup language, and you can either have your code embedded in the XAML file, or in a separate file. This means that soon it will not matter whether your app is WinForm based or WebForm based, the two should be interoperable (ie your code won't care whether the GUI elements are residing on a Windows window, or in an instance of IE). But the point to note is: you don't *have* to use XAML, you can still create your controls programmatically if you wish. One of the aims of XAML is to make development easy and fast, personally i don't like it as i have the knowledge and skills that mean i don't need another markup language. I think we are going to have another mass flood of lamers entering the programming world, much like we did when VB was released and suddenly millions of people *thought* they could program. Another point to note: Avalon is vector based, which will be a huge change for a lot of people.

As for the APIs.... the new API system is codenamed "WinFX" (not to be confused with WinFS, which is the filesystem). WinFX is .Net centric, and *all* API calls will be class (object) or interface based. So if you want to call WinFX functions directly, you all better start skilling up with OO style asm programming (did NaN and Thomas have some sort of divine insight when they starting releasing their OO framework?). You can relax a little however: the Win32 APIs will still continue to exist and be supported, they just won't be extended anymore. And the current Win32 APIs are being retooled so that they wrap the WinFX APIs, which means that even when you make a call to a standard Win32 API like MessageBoxA you will actually be making a call into the managed code that is WinFX. So no matter how much you try, you will not be able to avoid .Net if you want to code under the Windows OS. To avoid .Net, you will have to either target WinXP, Win2K, etc., or switch to another OS like... Linux, or Bogdan's OS :)

Longhorn is going to be a large shock for a lot of people, and it is certainly going to make asm coding harder (as even the drivers are written in .Net). I personally don't like the continual increasing level of abstraction from the machine that we are getting with each successive version of Windows. Programming paradigms like .Net and Java can be blamed on one thing: the proliferation of smart devices, which necessitates the abstraction, so that programs and environments can function no matter what the hardware is that they are sitting on. You all have to blame yourselves, for wanting those smart phones, those PDA's, those refrigerators connected to the internet :alright: ;)
Posted on 2003-11-13 01:49:23 by sluggy
Prithee must I move to linux? They seem to want to kill assembly on windows. I cannot believe it. :eek:
Posted on 2003-11-13 02:19:03 by roticv

Prithee must I move to linux?
No, you will have to use RosAsm on ReactOS :alright: :grin:
Posted on 2003-11-13 03:02:41 by sluggy
Originally posted by sluggy
XAML is very similar to ASP.NET, you have your GUI elements represented in a markup language, and you can either have your code embedded in the XAML file, or in a separate file.

Yet another "innovation" of M$ :grin: Have they hear that Gecko have had several years doing that in a very efficient way?

WinFX is yet another wrap to the APIs, so the efficience of win32asm applications will be seriously compromised. I wonder how overloaded they will be. Now the overload is caused by some (additional, redundant) calls to the NT native (undocumented) calls. But what about calling and loading huge *objects* in order to do simple interaction with the OS.

Isn't Windows committing suicide?
Posted on 2003-11-13 03:55:30 by pelaillo

WinFX is yet another wrap to the APIs, so the efficience of win32asm applications will be seriously compromised. I wonder how overloaded they will be. Now the overload is caused by some (additional, redundant) calls to the NT native (undocumented) calls.
No, you have that round the wrong way....WinFX is not a wrap of native APIs, WinFX is brand new product and *is* the native API. The Win32 APIs wrap WinFX.

Another potential good point that i forgot to mention before was that Avalon is designed to use as much processing power of the GPU as possible to take the load off the CPU. So you won't want to use Longhorn without a modern graphics card. If you do use an old card, then your machine is going to run like a slug because it will require CPU time to render the graphics.
Posted on 2003-11-13 04:37:49 by sluggy
Hi Sluggy,

My comment about IIS and Avalon comes from something I had read over at Java.net

As I have argued elsewhere, Microsoft doesn't really like the idea of browser-delivered apps because it weakens the Microsoft desktop. Just as with Java, if Avalon gives users an amazing experience which is just not available through the browser, then browser-based apps don't seem like such a good idea to users. Alternatively, the browser might support these capabilities, but only through IE when powered by IIS on a Windows server.
Posted on 2003-11-13 06:05:31 by donkey
Sure time to see other products.


I think is strategy for get more money or market, if they can use a script for write applications they will get more users that think they can programm ;), I still whatching people that think that HTML is a programming language, and not is a formater of text interpreted language :).


uhhhhhh, a layer for communicate between diferents products (phine, pc, refrigerator), I think that can be done in asm :).


Gecko, then ms is not doing nothin really interesting, is only doing one thing that is already there... not much surprise by my self :).


No, you will have to use RosAsm on ReactOS, yep ;) or enter to SolarOS or lin.


Isn't Windows committing suicide?

How could MS think people will move to another version of Windows if it is slower and just looks prettier? ...oh, wait -- that is what happened with WinXP.


Let they do that, is they choice for get a "new OS".

By the way, the people always like the cool look and never thing what happend with the performance.

I will say you one thing that I know and I remember, history of *nix and win:

Lin was borned IIRC after AT&T(make not public from one time) and other I dont remember, but you can still using the anterior source for show how to make an OS at the university, then come minix and after Torvalls make the first lin, but from the start, lin was a (good complete) operative system, this is security and multiprocess.


Win really was borned in fast, but remember that win dont born first, first was DOS, tha really was not a operative system Disk Operative System, this is only process the acces to the disk, and maybe other things, but they pass the control directly to the programm that it load, and if the program say delete or format, this was ejecuted. See that this was not an complete OS.

See that in this point, a programmer on unix cost a lot of money and this can run in Main Systems, not in the called PC, then was more cheap take a PC and put there Win or DOS, but see that if you where a corporation like borland or other, for what you will develop appication to a system that is not used by much people all the world?, then they choice to make apps for dos (TC) and others, it dosent matter that this was a poor operative system, is cheap and the people use it, dosent matter what it is, by this way win increase his size with borland and other corporations, the you see it dosent matter that is a poor design or patches or change only for good loook, at the end what they move is money.


For what I say this, where nix wash developed to be a good OS Win was made for the people ... (look and feel, not run correctly, remember the blue screen), then come the new version of lin that suport graphics or the x-system, that is a good move ;), the people will think... hey they look like win, but the true is that win look like apple system ;) (some time I listen that this is the best OS, but is to spensive for get a computer of apple and sure not the called standar of win, intel and maybe now amd...).




Conclusion: It dosent matter that was good or not, if look OKasss and easy to use (like some point before) it will exist.... :), crap no????


Nice day por night.


By the way I am moving to linux ;), I will try SolarOS, for what to switch???, at less I use a pirate version of win, I dont whant to break more time this, linux is free and I have more choices..... I can still programming in asm with AT&T sintaxis or Intel, also I dont like to suport a company that know his error and dont do nothing for correct them, this is for what I let programming in java too and I will let Win too.

By the way, if you whant a little more history http://ragib.hypermart.net/linux/




bytes.
Posted on 2003-11-13 09:04:23 by rea
Hi hgb,

I will be forced to move to Linux as well. I will keep a Windows machine handy for some development but I see no future for ASM or any real programming in Windows so I intend to drop it in favour of Linux. At work they have now switched the servers to Linux and will soon begin to install it on new workstations (scheduled to start July 2004) so I see little point in Windows for myself. The company is mostly concerned with security holes in Windows but has also sent a few memos about not wanting .NET installed on any workstations because of licensing issues.
Posted on 2003-11-13 10:04:19 by donkey