Well it looks like im looking for a new PIC programming software. I was using PICALL (www.picallw.com) which worked unconditionally for my 16F84A's and 12C508's but now that im getting my USB adventures started with the PIC16C745, and the software tells me that im only allowed to program 256 bytes (out of the 8K available).

This is no good at all... Too bad to. I like the software (small and efficient). Anyways, I have a home grown programmer that works, but does anyone have any good recomendations for programming software??

( looks like im off internet fishing ;) )

Regards,
:alright:
NaN
Posted on 2003-05-30 23:08:46 by NaN
Sorry, all I ever used to program the PIC16C745 is a PIC START.

(I even had Microchip's eval kit to try it on before I went to a breadboard).

I did have trouble with the supplied demo code, when sending bytes TO the device, it got nothing, re-used the last data, and no error was generated I could find. Had to do a work-around and use a write/verify scheme.
Posted on 2003-05-31 14:14:25 by Ernie
I have one from the cheap PIC16F628 programmer I posted a while ago called WinPIC. But it only works with programmers on tha parallel port. And you have to configure it yourself. (For example, in a config u have to say something like DataOut=!D0, D0 LPT port inverted etc.) if you would like I will upload to u. Let me check if it supports your USB PIC. Give me a sec I will post again.
Posted on 2003-05-31 16:03:12 by x86asm
IT will not support your chip but u can manually enter the size of the program EPROM and SRAM embedded in the chip and it may work but you also have to manually come up with a Config WORD.
Posted on 2003-05-31 16:04:56 by x86asm
Im not too concerned about entering the properties of the chip, and the the properties of my programming device (it is on the parallel port).

My concern is if all Pic's follow the same programming protocol for sequencing the data into the chip. I can make the necessary hardware adjustments to accomodate different chip packages, but im unclear if the reasons some programmers cut short of this and other chips is due to the programming algorithm.

Im hesitant to assume that all chips program by the same specification (according to Microchip). I never really thought about this until now. It *appears* to be the same, looking at the specifications for the 16C7XX series chips, but these programming software are essentially black boxes and you just have to hope really. (Unless im wrong and someone can clearify that there is some standard between all chips for flash programming).

I was thinking of writing my own Programmer software for the 16C7XXX series (based on the in circuit serial programming spec). At least then i would have some basis for debugging, cause i would have the spec and know what I've programmed my software to do.... (but this will be an added overhead in the learning curve for sure).

In either case i would be interested in this programmer.
:NaN:
Posted on 2003-05-31 16:18:33 by NaN
HeyNaN sorry to go off topic but can you check out the FFT section in the algos I got a question for ya :D
Posted on 2003-05-31 16:42:15 by x86asm
Hi, NaN,

If you are willing to write some software to program new devices and all you need is the algorithms, follow this link: http://www.microchip.com/1010/suppdoc/specs/index.htm

Good luck.
Posted on 2003-05-31 18:21:14 by VVV
Thanx VVV...

Thats where I found the specifications for the USB Pic chip... (The docs are very clear, however, im not to eager to cross reference them ALL together to determine if they all use the same programming protocol, just on different pin configurations).

Thanks again! This is link still derserves to be posted for others!
:alright:
NaN
Posted on 2003-06-01 00:19:12 by NaN
Dah!

I dont know what crack i was smoking. Untill now i failed to notice that the USB pic is a one time programmable device (OTP). I dont know about you, but i tend to make mistakes (especially when developing for something im new to!).

Im starting to think i should explore other companies USB chip products.. because i dont think i will have the budget to be tossing out alot chips (not to mention developing my own programming software to boot!).

If anyone has any alternate suggestions i would be glad to hear them.

:alright:
NaN
Posted on 2003-06-01 17:11:28 by NaN

Dah!

I dont know what crack i was smoking. Untill now i failed to notice that the USB pic is a one time programmable device (OTP). I dont know about you, but i tend to make mistakes (especially when developing for something im new to!).

Im starting to think i should explore other companies USB chip products.. because i dont think i will have the budget to be tossing out alot chips (not to mention developing my own programming software to boot!).

If anyone has any alternate suggestions i would be glad to hear them.

:alright:
NaN


Possibly ATMEL, Philips or Dallas?

www.futurlec.com <--- Pretty good site (But in US)
Posted on 2003-06-01 19:08:26 by x86asm
Thanks x86asm,

I looked over your suggestions, but i was convinced they were what I want. I like to have full control (at least while learning), and maybe in the future i will turn to some of these packages. However, there is a significant learning curve to these other chips as well... (and software/assembly to boot).

I was flipping thru my USB by Design book when i came across this:

http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/buses/usb/products/transceiver/pdiusbp11a/index.html

And even better:

http://www.semiconductors.philips.com/pip/PDIUSBD11D.html

Which is basically a USB hardware front end chip. It has no internal processor, only the enconding/decoding of packets into a serial data stream (via interupt). Now i feel im back in business. This chip with say the 16F84A or simular will get me back on the horse again (i hope ~ need to finish reading the specs). I havent check up on the cost of the chip yet, but i would assume its affordable. As well, it gives me more room to design the USB by my understanding/requirments, rather learn and adhear to some other companies way of doing things...

Im open to people's oppinions/thoughts with this chip... good or bad idea?

:alright:
NaN
Posted on 2003-06-01 22:42:04 by NaN
The device looks good. I believe it uses the I^2C bus, are you using a PIC16F684? You can implement the I^2C in software I think I have software routines for I^2C for the PIC16F84 on my system somewhere on my HDD. If you need it I will post it when I find it :D
Posted on 2003-06-02 07:26:07 by x86asm
Nan,
i really will be happy if my proggy "4pic" could be useful. Just for programming without any limit it should work fine.
i've added 16C745 model to the models list box. Just try.
Configuration word programming for this model must be still implemented, i don't have much time now, if someone would like i really will be happy :)
Attach exe proggy and code.

B7
Posted on 2003-06-03 14:31:46 by Bit7
Thanks i will look into it.

However i only have one chip at the moment, so it will be a bit before i do any serious trials. If i stick with a PIC i will be doing *alot* of software emulations before i even get to this phase.

:NaN:
Posted on 2003-06-03 22:29:25 by NaN
The PIC16C745/JW is a ceramic windowed version of this part, expose to UV and it's as fresh as the day it was made.

Digi-key has 77 pieces onhand they'll sell ya for 12 buskc a piece.
Posted on 2003-06-04 11:40:12 by Ernie
Ya, i realized that, but i dismissed it cause my home electronics lab doesnt include a U/V erasing lamp/kit. Is there any cost effect alternates to generating suitable U/V to erase these chips?? ((without leaving them on the window ledge on a hot summers day ;) )) <lol>

:NaN:
Posted on 2003-06-04 22:57:02 by NaN
Beats me how to do it real cheap (free). Last halloween got some little black lights for a buck or two, its not impossible they would do it (may take a few hours).

I got the cheaper UV erasor from D-K, small black plastic. I went the extra 10 bucks for the timer on it too. I'm on my 2nd one, they break really easily.
Posted on 2003-06-05 17:54:31 by Ernie
If your refering to this:

http://dkc3.digikey.com/pdf/T032/0459.pdf

Its a little more than 10$ for the timmer ;)

(( I think i will look for alternatives first, however, thanks for the thought! ))


Speaking of, here is an alternative: http://www.mikeg2.freeserve.co.uk/eprom/eraser.html

What do you think?

:NaN:
Posted on 2003-06-05 20:31:49 by NaN
My recollection from way back is that germicidal UV was the recommended home-brew eraser because of the wavelength. Just as the article says, put it in an opaque enclosure, preferably metal. (There was a time when UV was the dominant erasing technique.)

You may want to add a door/lid closure switch for safety purposes.

Your choice whether you want the timer to control the exposure, or simply tell you "Time's up!"
Posted on 2003-06-05 23:23:11 by tenkey
I meant an extra 10 bucks foir the timer, its 40 or 50 bucks total. Can't find it on digi-key online, remember it being in the paper catalog last time I looked.

That box looks OK, all you need is something/anything to light up a UV florescent bulb. The little plastic one I have probably has the same bulb, the housing around it has a built in tray that holds the chips directly over and on top of the bulb for the highest exposure. You might want to make a tray like that too.
Posted on 2003-06-06 17:10:44 by Ernie