I just don't get it. Why is it that hunting "animals" is okay but hunting humans is not and is punishable by life imprisonment or death.

Face it, humans are basically animals. It's the human superiority complex that enables him/her to think that he/she is a superior being compared to dogs, cats, bears... and that he/she is *not* an "animal". This is attributed to high intelligence that humans have. The ability to think he/she is a unique individual is very rare among the animal kingdom where only a few species other than the hominid(homo sapiens) are given this "gift".

Here's a scenario:

1A. A human went to a forest area to have fun with his outdoor hobby, hunting. Along the way he spotted a bird, which by the way did nothing wrong to the human and shoots his hunting rifle, the bullet was a little way off the target. The bullet did not instantly kill the bird, the bird suffers for an hour then dies.

1B. Everyday, we are surrounded by dipshits, stupid, violent people. Some people causes bodily harm and some even may cause a loss of life

Why is it that it's not OK to hunt down humans. Compared to the bird who did nothing wrong, who is more worthy of the bullet?

I'm not advocating violence but why is it that humans have double standards when it comes to other species other than their own?
Posted on 2003-06-27 13:40:05 by arkane
I know what you mean and I agree.
Posted on 2003-06-27 13:50:23 by Hiroshimator
Sometimes, I'm scared of my thoughts. :grin: I would love to see everyone's opinion...

I like this type of questions where there is an inner struggle on your beliefs, what you are... and where you stand.... :grin: :grin: :grin:
Posted on 2003-06-27 13:58:49 by arkane
struggle? The only thing you have a struggle with is local laws.
I decided long ago that some human beings just aren't worth it :tongue:


Posted on 2003-06-27 14:19:11 by Hiroshimator
Solution for 1A: Get a bigger rifle.
Solution for 1B: Carry it with you.

:grin:
Posted on 2003-06-27 19:49:52 by bazik
Why is it okay? Well, because birds can't have our children or be of any help to us whatsoever? Besides, we're bigger and stronger and them, and have weapons.
Posted on 2003-06-27 21:14:41 by Sephiroth3
following that logic we'd routinely kill all retarded, old and/or handicapped people and the people with guns would kill the other people unhampered.

In reality birds do more for this world than humans, like keeping insect populations in check amongst other things, it would be a bad world without birds.
Posted on 2003-06-28 04:30:41 by Hiroshimator

Why is it that hunting "animals" is okay but hunting humans is not and is punishable by life imprisonment or death.

(Ok, some of my reasoning is a bit stoneageman based, but I try to make the connection with the present understandable, so bare with me)
Because we are humans, we are not animals.
Ok, humans are animals, but we do not see it that way, we consder out selves superior.
Wheter we're superior or not is irrelevant, we are animals too, animals kill other animals, for food and/or/xor survival. So there justifying the killing of other animals is done, I'll soon explain why killing another human is 'wrong'.
Since we humans decied to live in larger clonies, we also decied to state rules for the co-existance, basically, we select a leader.
Note, even an leader that assumes/"takes command using violent means" is selected, since no one is able to take his (/hers, he spotted a bird, which by the way did nothing wrong to the human and shoots his hunting rifle

What birds carry anti-rifel weapons? ;) (sorry, I just had to missinterprent it :grin: )
The bird, why shoot it? Well hunters, they need to be good at shooting, and hitting the target, well one needs practice, especially if the "only" injures the bird, it's a failure, if that would have been a tiger attacing him he might dead (if the injury didn't imobilize the tiger). Why not shoot on tin cans, well, they don't live, thay don't move in a, undefined patter, when a lerted of the presence of something else. What the hunder should do is to end the suffering of the brid, but what if the bird becomes a nice lunch for some other animal, maybe a cat (they play with their food, so why not have some fun? Hiro, dinner's serverd ;) ).

As for 1B, -- uhm -- so what? dickheads are all over the place, I know several but I don't kil them, they are not psoing any threat to me. but if they were to attack me, then the most likey scenaro is damages on both sides but the largest damge is probably on the attackers.
I'm not saying I'm invicible but, I know how to cause major trauma an attacker, it's very easy to kill/damage some one. The best thing however is simply to avoiding conflicts, one must not push it's luck, shit happens, even if you know how to kill someone in hand to hand combat that doen't help against someone whos about to kill you with a Gautlinggun 45 meters away.

Acane, "Sometimes, I'm scared of my thoughts.", I'm always afraid my self and my thoughts, of what will happen if I lose control over myself.

Hiro, "following that logic we'd routinely kill all retarded, old and/or handicapped people and the people with guns would kill the other people unhampered.", excuse me don't you watch TV? (Or perhaps they're not showing what happens in teh world, I'm not saying swedish TV is any better, but we see more than the americans do, at least from what I've heard form others :| )
Things like that happens around the world.
Posted on 2003-06-28 13:38:47 by scientica
here's another example...

Situation #1

1. If you kill a dog because you hate animals, are you punishable by death? no, you will likely be charged for animal cruelty and probably serve prison time for < 5 years...
2. if a human kills another human(assuming first degree murder), the killer would definitely get a life imprisonment or a death penalty

Situation #2

1. if a dog kills a human, the dog would definitely be put to sleep(death)...
2. if a dog attacks a human and doesn't kill the human, the dog would have a high probability he/she will be put to sleep...

3. if a human mistreats/attacks a dog without killing it, the human attacker would definitely be placed on community service for a short period of time, some even will be jailed for a few months...

what's so special about the human specie?

seems we have double standards for every other species and we discriminate other than our own?

if a human attacks another human, should the attacker "be put to sleep", or should he be charged for assault? if our answer is "he/she should be put to sleep" then isn't that a bit harsh considering our moral standards of today? Then again if he will be charged of assault and spends time in jail for a few months isn't that unfair for other animals who did the same thing and were put to sleep?

confusing isn't it? like I'm being a traitor to the homo sapiens... :grin: :grin: :grin:

from the above scenario, choose your path... and choose who you are going to deny... ;)



if you choose the first path, which is the death for the attacker, then we are denying our human legacy, our intelligence, our morals, our "ethics", everything that made you "human"...

if you choose the second path, which is to charge the attacker with assault resulting on prison time, then we are continuing our double standards against other species...

;)
Posted on 2003-06-28 14:11:06 by arkane

1. If you kill a dog because you hate animals, are you punishable by death? no, you will likely be charged for animal cruelty and probably serve prison time for < 5 years...

That depends on the society. Wonder how much time a serial cow killer would get in India?
Posted on 2003-06-28 14:27:08 by ThoughtCriminal

1. if a dog kills a human, the dog would definitely be put to sleep(death)...
2. if a dog attacks a human and doesn't kill the human, the dog would have a high probability he/she will be put to sleep...
3. if a human mistreats/attacks a dog without killing it, the human attacker would definitely be placed on community service for a short period of time, some even will be jailed for a few months...

what's so special about the human specie?

The dog poses a thread to humans, killing it will make the world safer for humans. Pet Dogs are expendible, they don't have feelings (like us, dont get me wrong, if you kick them they expericence the same responce as we, but they don't experience remorce over killing animals, afaik)

As for humans disbehaving towards animals, sometimes they're caught. IMO the polcie shouldn't care about animal abuse, they've got more imporant work to do, murders, thefts and such.
Why not let some animal rights foo bars take care of that (the investigation, after they've recieved propper education, the corts can are of cource the instance where the criminals are put at trial and convicted or freed), they can do it free. At least then they do something use full instead of complaining and commiting illegal acts (such as destroying farms and killing the animals on farms but trowing them out to the wilderness where they will die :rolleyes: :( )

as for seria? cow killers, they will be having a few extra low cast lives to live :eek:
How much time would a (47 killer in China get? Probably a sometime in the kitchen (don't they eat more animals and such in China than we do, they have, interesting, food (one thing I do know how good it testes it is wooked food, yum, I'm getting hungry... ))
Posted on 2003-06-28 14:42:37 by scientica
That depends on the society. Wonder how much time a serial cow killer would get in India?
yes, you are right that depends on the society and the moral, religious... values the society applies. I understand what you are saying...

"killing is killing" period .... unless we change that to "killing is killing if the victim is human" ;)
Posted on 2003-06-28 14:43:56 by arkane
The dog poses a thread to humans, killing it will make the world safer for humans. Pet Dogs are expendible, they don't have feelings (like us, dont get me wrong, if you kick them they expericence the same responce as we, but they don't experience remorce over killing animals, afaik)
ok I'm not going to counter the argument that dogs don't have feelings like us... even though I disagree... since no one has a factual reliable source that dogs don't have feelings, I'll leave this argument as it is but

"The dog poses a thread to humans" so does other humans so "killing it will make the world safer for humans." ... ;)

but no, if you pose a threat, you will likely to get jailed... not deathAs for humans disbehaving towards animals, sometimes they're caught. IMO the polcie shouldn't care about animal abuse, they've got more imporant work to do, murders, thefts and such.
Why not let some animal rights foo bars take care of that (the investigation, after they've recieved propper education, the corts can are of cource the instance where the criminals are put at trial and convicted or freed), they can do it free. At least then they do something use full instead of complaining and commiting illegal acts (such as destroying farms and killing the animals on farms but trowing them out to the wilderness where they will die
I agree but my the main questions is:
why is it that humans have double standards when it comes to other species other than their own?
isn't this discrimination, hypocrisy on our moral values? :grin:
Posted on 2003-06-28 14:51:14 by arkane
Hunting
All animals kill other animals.

Insects kill other insects and animals by being a vector for viral transmission.

Man kills animals including man.

Elephants, rhinos, alligators, mice,rats, mosquitos and sharks all kill man.

Its us or them.

Today a bird shit on my head while i was weeding the garden. I call that an air assault so I'm buying a shot gun.

Having said that i would say that man is perhaps the only animal that kills for pleasure or vindictive reasons. Other Animals kill only for survival.

So ...all other animals are superior to man from a moral stand point...even a virus.
Posted on 2003-06-28 17:11:51 by IwasTitan
Hunting
Having said that i would say that man is perhaps the only animal that kills for pleasure or vindictive reasons.
I kinda disagree on vindictive reasons, I believe other animals too, kill for revenge
Today a bird shit on my head while i was weeding the garden. I call that an air assault so I'm buying a shot gun.
if your wife/girlfriend slaps you because she was disappointed on "something", would you also blow her head off with a shotgun? :grin: 'cause if you won't, there's the double standard again, but if you do it, your denying your intelligence, your moral values that killing is not right.

hypocrisy... discrimination...

and isn't hypocrisy, discrimination et. al against our "morals"? unless you want to profess that you are a hypocrite and willing to discriminate, maybe I can excuse you... but you are sacrificing your credibility if you profess to be one... :grin:





actually there is no right or wrong answer to the main question since there is no answer comprehensible. We didn't choose to be hypocrites but we are. We don't want to discriminate but we do it directly/indirectly. We want equality for all species but that would be suicide. Denying self-preservation is denying your right to live.... this goes in a circular path, repeating and repeating where there is no end until you are all alone... isn't life weird? ;)



I should stop before I start contradicting with my signature... :grin: oh wait I did... :grin:

<burns himself>
Posted on 2003-06-28 17:28:28 by arkane
Hunting
i disagree with hunting, but i'd just like to add that you can reform some ppl, but not animals by conventional means.
Posted on 2003-06-28 19:59:19 by jademtech
Hunting
Originally posted by arkane
"The dog poses a thread to humans" so does other humans so "killing it will make the world safer for humans." ... ;)

but no, if you pose a threat, you will likely to get jailed... not deathIwasTitan:
So ...all other animals are superior to man from a moral stand point...even a virus.

We are similar of viruses, haven't you seen the Matrix? ;)

arkane:
and isn't hypocrisy, discrimination et. al against our "morals"? unless you want to profess that you are a hypocrite and willing to discriminate, maybe I can excuse you... but you are sacrificing your credibility if you profess to be one...

Moral and hippocrisy, they walk hand in hand, if you are succesful with both and can masqurade the hipocrisy part you're well siuted for the role as a leader politican. :alright:

So far our survival stratergy has been successful, you see we are fruitful and multiplying, the survival of the human species is at the moment only threatened by evolution. We are no longer oppotunists, we've become adpters, we adapt the envroment to suit us instead of adpating ourselves to it.
Posted on 2003-06-29 06:25:27 by scientica
Hunting
In the states, they kill humans which pose a threat, death penalty is one name of it another is captial punishment, but the y both mean, kill it in the name of the law!
that's true but killing is still killing, isn't it? law gives justification to killing. The moral values the society upholds gives justification to killing...

our moral values dictates that we:

1. shouldn't be a hypocrite
2. shouldn't discriminate
3. should treat everybody equal
...

but still, we do the opposite anyway...
Moral and hippocrisy, they walk hand in hand, if you are succesful with both and can masqurade the hipocrisy part you're well siuted for the role as a leader politican.
that's true but I'm targeting the human species in general, and questioning that why is it that they apply different standards to non-humans? Why do all(and I mean 99.98%) humans are hypocrites, et. al. ? .... so what if you're a human, it doesn't justify a logical reason that we should have more "special" treatment than other animals. So what if we have done more "breakthroughs in technology"... it doesn't give any sufficient reasons that we are excused for being the opposite of the moral values stated above. Yet we continually preached those same moral values again and again and again...

I'm questioning the human nature itself and why is this happening? Even I, continue to do it. Though I know this.

this whole thread alone, proves my point... starting from the idea of justifying the killing of animals on a specific event... idea of feeling superiority.... ;)



p.s. I don't really expect an answer to the main question... just questioning one of the mysteries of life... :grin:
Posted on 2003-06-29 11:39:40 by arkane
Hunting
It is about control. We have a false sense of control. There comes a scale at which humans are too much a part of the thing which we are trying to control and the illusion of control falls apart. At very small scales the illusion has been complete enough to drive world human culture for thousands of years.
Posted on 2003-06-30 08:34:44 by bitRAKE
Hunting
so human hunting? shall it trigger somekind like a war? why not? war is the real example of "hunting".
Posted on 2003-06-30 08:52:45 by dion