don't diss my short hair :p
Hiro,

you can choose to rebel or not, what you think is what counts not what you do.

I'm just the rebellious type. :grin:
Posted on 2003-07-02 11:09:34 by arkane
it's not about rebelling or not. It's about my hair being that crummy that millimetered is my only option. :|

you rebels are so short-sighted ;P
Posted on 2003-07-02 11:56:24 by Hiroshimator

it's not about rebelling or not. It's about my hair being that crummy that millimetered is my only option. :|

you rebels are so short-sighted ;P
YAY!!! so you really look like sh*t if you do the opposite, right? if yes, then much better...
Posted on 2003-07-02 13:19:36 by arkane
I have what I call a monks head :P

so a nice crop circle in the middle if you catch my drift.... :grin: (which has been somewhat of a frustration for me given the relative young age I got it :/ about 17; vanitas vanitatum, omnia est vanitas )
Posted on 2003-07-02 15:16:50 by Hiroshimator
so were you the one being made fun at that fastfood chain then.... :grin: :grin: :grin: :grin:

no offense but mine is much worst but I'm not bald. You don't want to know. :grin:
Posted on 2003-07-02 15:27:10 by arkane
yeah, well. Anti-weapon laws here keep the IQ down and the population up :grin:
Posted on 2003-07-02 16:24:24 by Hiroshimator

hehe, a union of burglars. What will they do if their demands aren't met? Go on strike? :grin:

Yes, be aware, what will happen to the police if we stop working, they will loose their jobs after some time (when they're done with the old stacked work)...

yeah, well. Anti-weapon laws here keep the IQ down and the population up :grin:

:grin:
Posted on 2003-07-03 06:14:03 by scientica
For starters man has been hunting lesser creatures for hundreds of thousands of years. It is quite a natural act that was very much an act of survival and still is in many regions of this earth.

The act of hunting for food is genetically bred into most societies around the world. Many other species hunt creatures others than themselves for survival.

Most species also do not hunt their own kind so as to genetically ensure the survival of their own kind. Man is no different.

The hypocisy comes for those dislike hunting , yet these same persons woof down a Mcdonald's burger or a huge steak with the full knowledge that the cow that died to feed them was killed by a hammer blow to the head. If you can eat it you should have the guts to kill it yourself.
Posted on 2003-07-04 23:12:12 by angle of repose
;)

Have the guts to kill it yourself, I'm sure it takes alot of guts. The fact is there is nothing scary about hunting and it doesn't take guts to sit in a blind and shoot a moose with a high powered rifle from a hundred feet away. Fear would denote a chance that you might loose the battle, that won't happen. Do I think that animals are "lesser", no, that's just arrogant. Animals are just a different genetic sequencing. Do I think we should all be vegetarians, no, that's just dumb, we are omnivores that's a fact and can't be changed. I hate hunting, I eat meat, I don't hunt because I don't like to kill things that were not raised for food, I'll do my hunting in the supermarket thanks and the wild animals can stay in the bush. If you like to hunt more power to you, when you've shot everything that moves we'll have a beef steak together. I remember when moose used to wander by our cottage when I was a kid, there are none left alive within a hundred miles of the cottage now, their heads are all strapped to the hoods of cars (yes it's a disgusting tradition here).
Posted on 2003-07-05 03:26:50 by donkey
Just to remind everyone who will post to continue this thread which I already left. There is no question to the scientific theories, explanations, facts... but the main point here is that man is willing to indirectly discriminate and apply different standards, though not necessarily mean or to treat as if of "lesser being", to animals other than his own, YET at the same time preaches about values of non-discrimination, non-double standards, equality... that my friends explains why humans are the biggest hypocrites.

adios!!! :grin:


p.s. I'm not a self righteous vegetarian, I don't have anything against hunting yet I still eat meat. And yes, I still preach those same values of non-double standards et al... you see I'm not a hypocrite on accepting my fault. :grin:

yum! yum! those delicious homemade burgers and hotdogs I ate today.... :grin: :grin:
Posted on 2003-07-05 03:53:58 by arkane
Oh so typical..........start a thread then run and hide....No politics here........wouldn't catch hunters doing that.
Posted on 2003-07-05 06:06:44 by angle of repose
angle,

Feel free to continue but I already got what I came here. If you noticed that the topic stopped way off the main topic, it's a sign nobody is willing to continue anymore. It's the same sh*t we are talking before, over and over again, and it sounds like a broken record. But if you continue the same rhetoric everybody(Posted on 2003-07-05 13:22:33 by arkane
Arkane;

There is nothing to solve. Man hunting beast is quite normal and natural.

What is abnormal and inhumane in this generation is the way cattle are raised and slaughtered and how those who be claim to be defenders of all creatures choose to ignore it because they don't see it.

Those who profess to be kind and caring towards other creatures should visit a domestic cattle ranch and slaughter house and see how their supper is treated.


Most young people when asked; Where does steak and hambuger come from?, would say the supermarket.

Previous generations were much more in touch with the realities of the food chain because they were directly involved in hunting and/or the slaughtering of their supper.(very normal, no solution necessary).

As far as man killing man, read the paper, turn on the news. It happens every day. Only difference is man(in most cases) does not kill his own kind for food.

So there you have it.

No need for going to a political chat group for politics, there is more than enough in this thread and those similar to it. Their authors just choose not to aknowledge such.
Posted on 2003-07-05 18:01:04 by angle of repose
fair enough... but this striked me odd
Man hunting beast is quite normal and natural
natural? yes, this is basically animal nature which nearly all animals shares but normal? what defines as normal? :grin:

e.g.

remember in other cultures/beliefs..., some practices what you considered as abnormal is normal and vice versa... ;)


if you want my opinion on your post, there is no question about it in the superficial context, like I said there is no question to the scientific explanations or your explanations because it doesn't matter which you believe. What I don't understand is the underlying thought that is justifiable/normal to kill other animals not in the name sake for food but in treatment, what you thought of them...

yes, I know that it's natural that any animal doesn't kill his own kind for food... yet we preach about equality? yet we preach about "KILLING is one of the worst crime"? Do we exlude other animals on that sayings? if you answer yes, then your applying double standards? Do you want me to apply double standards because of what you are? NO!.

Should we be vegetarians? NO, unless you grow your own vegetables then you are not different than those self-righteous vegetarians who thinks eating vegetables are "saving" animals. - search for maddox's article

If you want to understand what I'm trying to say here, I would appreciate that you read from the very top of the thread.

What you're applying here is very superficial, I belive you are right but were not talking on the same level here and I don't think everyone here is ignorant of the superficial realities.

I myself have seen execution videos, decapitations not just animals but humans - www.ogrish.com

and yes there is something to solve here but I just don't think it's possible.

You might say what you think of most young people but please don't apply the same thinking cause I'm not part of the average "young people".
No need for going to a political chat group for politics, there is more than enough in this thread and those similar to it. Their authors just choose not to aknowledge such.
I agree there are similar stuff like analogies for examples but to me analogies is just plain bias, the one's I'm trying to apply here is for everyone so everyone is included none are excluded. I'm so cruel, ain't it ? :grin:

I really hate to repeat myself cause I've been repeating the things I'm saying from the very first post. And I don't want to let you think that I just ignore threads, I read it but If I just keep saying things over and over again, it's useless, it's non productive.

The only people that will be excluded on this scutiny are those who will say that they are willing to discriminate and willing to apply different standards... but if none says so, I will scrutinize everybody including myself, no exceptions.


So let's cut the drivel I posted above, just answer a couple of questions and I promise I won't bother you anymore(this question is for everybody actually...).

Just answer YES or NO. just YES or NO....

for vegetarians, read this article first - http://maddox.xmission.com/grill.html and as for a majority of vegetarians, remember, you're not guiltless on eating your veggies... ;)

Are you willing to discriminate, apply different standards to any living thing(including humans of course - sorry for stating the obvious ;) )?

if you say NO, continue
else then stop reading this post.

1. Do you think it's justifiable/normal to kill animals for food?
2. Do you think it's justifiable/normal to treat animals differently?
3. Do you think it's justifiable/normal to kill humans for food?
4. Do you think it's justifiable/normal to treat humans differently?

if you say:

a. no to all, then stop reading this post.
b. yes to all, then stop reading this post.
c. else, then good, you're a f***ing hypocrite. :grin:


sorry for the profanity, it was just there for "added effect" :grin: :grin: :grin:


p.s. no need to post your answers, just answer it silently because we don't want people to know what kind of person you are based on the sequence of questions above. ;)
Posted on 2003-07-05 19:47:36 by arkane
Man hunting beast is quite normal and natural :) Man naturally shits in the woods but for the most part we use toilets, instinctively we should live in trees not in houses but we do. The thing is that just because we evolved a certain way doesn't necessarily imply that we cannot overcome our lower instincts and control ourselves.

I couldn't give a damn about how a cow is treated as long as the meat is good, it is raised for food and it has fulfilled it's mission when I pick up the steak at the supermarket. Wild animals are not raised for food and are not a necessary part of our diet and should be left alone.
Posted on 2003-07-05 20:08:33 by donkey
donkey,

you're a hypocrite. :grin: :grin: :grin:


p.s. hey I already called myself a hypocrite on my past posts, so don't worry... the first part of "evolving" is accepting the truth. But I still don't believe it's possible to change human nature.... ;)
Posted on 2003-07-05 20:18:03 by arkane
:grin:
Actually I'm pretty consistent, I have no problems killing anything that was raised for food. Wild things should be left alone.
Posted on 2003-07-05 20:20:48 by donkey
Well this thread has been eating at my guts for so long that i must make a confession and get something off my chest.

I ONCE KILLED AN ANIMAL FOR PLEASURE!

Yes its true. It was my first hunting trip and i had never unloaded a gun before.

While trudging through the bush and carrying my friends 16 gauge full choke shot gun i spotted a chipmunk resting quietly on a moss covered log. Totally excited I asked my friend for permission to blow the little guy to smitherings. I unloaded even before his confirmatory response came. The kickback from the gun knocked me on my ass and the chipmunk was vaporized. The only remains we found was one centimeter length of intestine hanging from a leaf. Needless to say there was no meal to be had.

I only confess this in that i am tired of getting on my hands and knees every nite to pray to the chipmunk god to take good care of the little feller that had given me such joy by allowing me to blow him to kingdom come.

I think everybody should confess their selfish moments. It makes you feel forgiven.

Any takers?
Posted on 2003-07-05 20:42:16 by IwasTitan
IwasTitan,

pleasure or not, it doesn't really matter.... don't worry the people who are going to criticize you, are guilty of the same thing... every living thing is guilty anyway... ;) :grin: :grin:

for starters, I killed spiders, ants, worms, bees, flies... not for pleasure but because I was annoyed... :grin:
A man's very highest moment is, I have no doubt at all, when he kneels in the dust, and beats his breast, and tells all the sins of his life.

- Oscar Wilde

donkey,

good for you... :alright:



p.s. Everyone is a *murderer* actually... :grin:
Posted on 2003-07-05 21:37:06 by arkane
Oscar Wilde is definatly on to something there...
that quote rings true I believe......(borrowed from a gent 2000 years ago.)

What is being missed here is the fact that animals other than humans are quite capable of killing humans for survival, and nourishment purposes, if necessary.

The only thing that tilts the advatage scale towards a human dominance is the humans ability to create tools via his thought process.

Most humans put out in the wilderness without modern weapons, tools and knwledge of such wilderness, would be dead within days.

The same is not true with amimals still wild. They are programmed through genetics and very well trained by their parents to survive. Western humans have become very weak, dependng on their technology to save them......

Perhaps in the not to distant future, nature and the creatures other than man will reclaim their territory, and man will have to go back to his roots and forget all the usless, dangerous, and harmfull technology that he has engineered.
Posted on 2003-07-05 23:56:26 by angle of repose