For my AP(Advanced Placement) Computer Science class, I am learning Java, as the ap test this year has moved from C++ to Java. And while i tend to learn from experience, i cant seem to find anything i really want to program of interest in java. The cross platform ability is nice, but what exactly is there to do besides web based applets, material, and etc, or is that all java is for?

Sorry but i just dont find Java as "good" as i've seen people hype it up to be from the books & code i've read so far.:(

Im hoping someone can enlighten me though.:alright:
Posted on 2003-08-27 20:29:04 by Guy on ASM
I'm in the same class right now, and I've already read a couple books on Java.

To tell you the truth, the class sucks.

Java can do graphics easily; you can see a whole lot of fractal applets on the internet (which I think are interesting). It can do networking with sockets quite easily.... Then of course there's Java3D, which some MMORPGs have been made with (Runescape is one, however I think it's a waste of time).

So ya, basically it's good for cross-platform compatibility with no change in code, only it's mega slow because the bytecode has to be interpreted during execution time. You can compile to .exe for OS dependent apps, but I really don't see the point (unless you just need the speed).

I say, use Java for web apps, C++ for programs, ASM for speed, and BASIC for fun :P

/me is not impressed with Java.
Posted on 2003-08-27 21:43:26 by Ninkazu
I currently study Java in school, it's not that booring (perhaps because I know the basics and write simple TT (tele type) funcitons when the others write "Hello Dword" applets). I had the choise betwene VB and Java - the choice is easy - don't support M$'s conquer the world with C#/VB/.net - choose Java from Sun :)
I do asm ofr fun, programming and speed, C++ -- primarily to understand the C/C++ sources/examples (OpenGL if for instance, has many C++ examples, but fewer asm :/ ). BASIC - I try to forgett it, but it has stuck in the spinal...
Posted on 2003-08-28 01:28:29 by scientica
the main advantange of Java is, that it is good to learn for beginners. The reason is - you can easily do graphics with it.

Some years ago (in the 80') you learned BASIC at first, because it was so easy to draw a line among the screen.
Later came the PC systems, then TURBO PASCAL was the hit, there you had an easy access to the VGA system and could paint in a nice 320x200 colored (!) screen.

With todays VisualBasic and VisualC stuff it is quite hard to paint something, so it is simply boring. You can program a command line example with "enter number one:" and "enter number two:" and "the result is:". Many people like to see some more "action".

So Java is a good choice for educational purposes. The use for professional things is indeed not useful. (Maybe people should be told, that after Java comes some real programming languages ;)
Posted on 2003-08-28 05:38:00 by beaster
Yes, Java is boring. And evil. And lame.

:alright:
Posted on 2003-08-28 06:28:18 by sluggy
I remember something about an assembler for writing programs at the Java byte code level. Forgot the name...
Posted on 2003-08-28 07:28:11 by ThoughtCriminal

I currently study Java in school, it's not that booring (perhaps because I know the basics and write simple TT (tele type) funcitons when the others write "Hello Dword" applets). I had the choise betwene VB and Java - the choice is easy - don't support M$'s conquer the world with C#/VB/.net - choose Java from Sun :)
I do asm ofr fun, programming and speed, C++ -- primarily to understand the C/C++ sources/examples (OpenGL if for instance, has many C++ examples, but fewer asm :/ ). BASIC - I try to forgett it, but it has stuck in the spinal...


Well seeing as how i know C/C++ and i've written things for a subset of java/C called unreal script for the Unreal Engine(which is so similar to java, in terms of importing classes and etc) Writting it is easy, but the purpose of it to me isnt all to ... how should i say... "useful".


the main advantange of Java is, that it is good to learn for beginners. The reason is - you can easily do graphics with it.

Some years ago (in the 80') you learned BASIC at first, because it was so easy to draw a line among the screen.
Later came the PC systems, then TURBO PASCAL was the hit, there you had an easy access to the VGA system and could paint in a nice 320x200 colored (!) screen.

With todays VisualBasic and VisualC stuff it is quite hard to paint something, so it is simply boring. You can program a command line example with "enter number one:" and "enter number two:" and "the result is:". Many people like to see some more "action".

So Java is a good choice for educational purposes. The use for professional things is indeed not useful. (Maybe people should be told, that after Java comes some real programming languages ;)


Well i guess me not being a beginner programmer disqualifys me on that account. I've been programming for about 4 years now and I must say when you learn any one HLL, all the rest seem to fall in suite after it. I was thinking perhaps you could do database programming with this, but i dont see the point(if at all it is possible), because you could do the same with SQL and other constructs out there.

One thing i know i'll end up writing is either an Irc Bot, or Irc Client for all platforms. The one im currently developing(a Channel IrcBot in C++) is only for the Windows OS.
Posted on 2003-08-28 09:14:51 by Guy on ASM

I remember something about an assembler for writing programs at the Java byte code level. Forgot the name...


bcel by apache
Posted on 2003-08-28 21:00:11 by enjoy!

Writting it is easy,


and there is your answer :) it is easier to work with than c++,
but isn't as lame as vb. on top of its ease, it also is platform
dependant (assuming the jvm is installed) which is another,
rather major, feature.
Posted on 2003-08-28 21:02:31 by enjoy!
Easier? Hells no. I'd rather cout << than System.out.print() it becomes a pain.
Posted on 2003-08-28 21:56:03 by Ninkazu
yes, but surely:



int[] = new int[1000];


for an array is easier than some malloc in c++ (i'd provide code if i knew it :))
Posted on 2003-08-28 22:24:21 by enjoy!


int array[1000];


Correct me if I am wrong. too long never use C/C++ (though i was not using malloc).
Posted on 2003-08-29 04:18:59 by roticv

yes, but surely:



int[] = new int[1000];


for an array is easier than some malloc in c++ (i'd provide code if i knew it :))


Well i really only had to use malloc when i declared a structure and made a linked list out of it.
Posted on 2003-08-29 08:33:16 by Guy on ASM
Originally posted by enjoy! on top of its ease, it also is platform
dependant (assuming the jvm is installed) which is another,
rather major, feature.
Really? I will assume that you meant to say "platform independant". Whose JVM should you install, Sun's or Microsofts? Do you still think it is totally platform independant now?
Posted on 2003-08-29 22:13:30 by sluggy

Really? I will assume that you meant to say "platform independant".


true, i made many mistakes in this thread :)




Whose JVM should you install, Sun's or Microsofts? Do you still think it is totally platform independant now?


the jvm you install doesn't matter as long as:
1. its meets the jvm spec
2. it is of the required version for your app

so i don't really get your point there...
Posted on 2003-08-30 04:33:38 by enjoy!
I think JAVA is lame. Though everyone seems to hate MS for it, VB is much simpler, more widely used, and I think just better all around.

Why doesn't someone turn the tables on MS and write vb runtimes for other platforms?

Also, look at the differences between Java and javascript. Then look at the differences between VB and VBscript. While each script engine is stated to be a subset of it's more complete parent language, vb/vbscript looks to be closer to it than java/javascript.

Aside from the platform issue, my choice would be vb for it's simplicity and wide use. Also I have had much better luck contracting for vb than for java, and is really the only reason I use it at all. I would much rather spend my time writing asm code. Yes, it takes longer and you have to write more lines of code, but you end up with much better programs.

I'm sure I'll see some flaming for this, but, oh well....
Posted on 2003-08-30 08:31:22 by djinn
Java is a good tool for teaching.

C++ has alot of syntax issues that tends to make the learning curve (and debugging) more challenging. This is not what you need as a student who is trying to learn the concepts first, and the pratical legistics second. Java has the latter pretty well made simple for you.

However, its damn slow, and its GUI is annoying to make a simple window and a button. But for wrapping your mind around a linked list, or a binary tree algorithm it exceeds for its readability and use. (Assuming your writing your own and not using some built in version of each).

I started my OOP with java. I knew a bit, but java considated what was missing in concepts... However, i have never gone back once. Like i said, its a good tool for learning, or a stepping stone to becoming better in the world of OOP.

:NaN:
Posted on 2003-08-30 09:28:39 by NaN

Java can do graphics easily

Should I start from Java if I wanna learn doing some raytracing?
I'm started from 2D asm :confused:
Posted on 2003-09-04 01:59:44 by S.T.A.S.

yes, but surely:
int[] = new int[1000];
for an array is easier than some malloc in c++ (i'd provide code if i knew it :))


somevhere Maverick provided this solution
sub ESP, 1000*DWORD

Asm rulez ;)
Posted on 2003-09-04 04:19:45 by S.T.A.S.

yes, but surely:



int[] = new int[1000];


for an array is easier than some malloc in c++ (i'd provide code if i knew it :))


Have you never used the 'new' and 'delete' keyword in C++. Malloc is the C way of creating space on the heap.
Posted on 2003-09-04 09:47:49 by Beefy