Scenario: Customer A (me) wants to backup computer OS and software with software B (Norton Ghost, which cost me around $70 or $80). Software B gets around to creating the last backup CD, then errors out. Software B then checks the backed up disks and finds them to be in error. Customer A then tries to use the CD's burned with software B to see if, by chance, they work. They don't!

Customer A is frustrated but decides to use his OS restore disks to restore his operating system and give it another try. Customer A tries to make a backup of his OS again. This time, no errors in the backup process, but on the verification process, errors all over the place! Software B provides customer A with some information on which registers had what values and yadda yadda at time of error (both times). Customer A decides to visit Company C's website (Symantec, the company that made Software B), and looks in the support section. Company C doesn't wish to provide good support for free, however. Company C charges outrageous fees for phone support (which customer A thinks is probably highly incompetent support, though hasn't tried it himself). Customer A has to search all over Company C's website in order to find ANY sorts of feedback via email options. The choices for feedback are only if you have questions about purchasing/ordering/etc, and then a nontechnical questions option---NOTHING about problems with their products! Customer A looks at Company C's options for enterprise versions of the product (not the version he has)...these have an option for technical problems.

Customer A feels very ripped off that Company C produced such a shoddy product as Software B that is incapable of even doing that which was the only reason Customer A bought Software B. (What else on earth is Norton Ghost good for anyway if it isn't good for backing up software?)

Customer A was going to be nice to Company C about this and email asking about things, but customer A found out that Company C will not support emailing them about bugs about their own shoddy software unless one is a customer of their Enterprise (aka, EXTREMELY overpriced) products!

Customer A is an extremely pissed off customer and is no longer going to do business with Company C---EVER! And, in fact, is going to let others know of his experiences so they can make informed decisions before purchasing shoddy software from a company that, IMO, is no better than a swindler. (A swindler sells you something that doesn't do what it is meant to. Their software doesn't do what it is meant to. I see no difference! Plus, it is outrageously high-priced!)
Posted on 2004-01-14 07:06:06 by ShortCoder
I understand your frustation, i have bought many products that did not do what i expected them to do... :(

But i wonder if N.Ghost was not supposed to make a 1 to 1 copy of a full HDD containing instalation of windows and/or other OS/Software to another full HDD, to ease up system replication and yes as a form of full and extreeme backup.

They might have added a partial or standard backup lately (did not checked it in a long time)

But i still do not think it makes good sense to make a replication from a HDD to a CD as they are much to different in geometry.

I guess early Ghost versions required that you even had 2x or Nx of the same type of HDD to do the trick.

I mean "ghost" meand just that : make a full ghost copy of a HDD, very fast and very easy :grin:


But i agree no support (at least by email) and huge prices its kind of not nice

Ooops.... i do have products i sell for 4.000$ + range .... some in the 100$-600$ range....

Well, if i sell them of course ... ouch

And this remembers me that my clients are alowed to call me by phone every time they want and any hours in order to ask for support for my products.... hmmmm maybe i should add an extra tax for this ? :grin:

This way i will be more free for other tasks :rolleyes:
Posted on 2004-01-14 07:32:17 by BogdanOntanu
Hm, I'm quite surprised you have had that kind of trouble with Ghost, it has always worked perfectly for me (except when experimenting with running ghost inside windows, but that's a plain silly thing to do anyway).

I've used it for sector->sector copying, for partion->partition cloning, with fat32, with NTFS, restoring to partition of a different size etc - no problems whatsoever. I didn't try the built-in CD creator, but I have manually created a bootable CD with ghost + ghost image in the past, and that worked perfectly too.

I also know a guy who did some Admin-stuff at his hischool, they used the imagecast function of ghost intensively and he sounded pretty satisfied with it.

So while you certainly seem to have had some trouble with ghost, I wouldn't discourage people from buying and using it - it has certainly saved my a$$ some times in the past, and it's quite faster to restore from it than, say, an unattended windows setup.

PS: sector-by-sector copy is retarded.
Posted on 2004-01-14 09:42:14 by f0dder
Use Server Image 4.0 from Power Quest. I used it before & it work OK :alright:
I can use it to backup fat32 & NTFS partition, compress it, resize partition (mannually or auto) when restore, encrypt it with password etc......

But it seem work not OK with XP :(

Posted on 2004-01-15 08:07:50 by QS_Ong
I would go even more far: NEVER BUY ANY NORTON SH*T !

I saw so many bugs in so many Norton-Crap-Software, that I can only sum it up to: dont buy, dont install, dont waste money.
Posted on 2004-01-16 05:36:50 by beaster
Norton products certainly aren't what they used to be. Norton AV 2001, while not the best scanner, does work flawlessly at the museum where I do tech support, though.

Besides, Ghost wasn't originally a norton product, and it has always worked flawlessly for me. I'm a bit cautious with PowerQuest tools however... while PartitionMagic never failed me, I know a bunch of people who have lost data when resizing partitions etc.
Posted on 2004-01-16 06:21:34 by f0dder
i also think bad about norton products.

1) see many time (from win95b) that when norton av waork in background, it create crashes to other apps and really slow down machine speed.
2) the latest av products are full of features but they can't be completely disbled so their services remain always in background, with possibility to make crash down apps and slow down the machine.

So actually at job, under my responsability, i've uninstalled latest norton av product, couse i really need a fast and unbug machine. Some scan online is good for now.

Posted on 2004-01-16 07:12:53 by Bit7
I wouldn't really feel sorry for anybody running win95, nor say a product is bad if it has compatibility problems with just win95. Hell, I'd even extend this to the whole of win9x :). What's the point, for normal users, of running antivirus if you don't have a monitor service running?
Posted on 2004-01-16 07:19:51 by f0dder
In my opinion the antivirus work fine only as a virus cleaner, there isn't a better prevention than being careful.
I don't use any antivirus I just don't open suspicious files and take a risk sometimes hehe.
Posted on 2004-01-16 10:53:02 by Eternal Idol Birmingham
Problem is that being cautious and scanning suspicious files won't handle backdoors, buffer overflows, and other sneaky ways of deploying a virus on the system. Besides, "normal users" tend to forget doing scans, or have no idea what "suspicious files" are - if they get an email from a friend, or somebody that *looks* like a friend (forged mails etc), they'll happily click any and all attachments...
Posted on 2004-01-16 12:11:57 by f0dder
Well, ever since the blaster I have Norton antivirus, Norton firewall as well as Ad-Aware. All run in the background and I have no problems and am no longer worried about uploading stuff and infecting others. I do a full system scan every 3 days and an Ad-aware scan every day. I am not as concerned about infecting my systems as I am about uploading some demo and infecting other peoples computers. As far as Ghost is concerned I have used it once (borrowed from the office because I won't use it enough to buy it) and it worked perfectly and smoothly, I was very impressed.
Posted on 2004-01-16 12:32:43 by donkey
I'm working on this friends computer right now and I don't have a clue what her children have done to corrupt the files on the drive, but she really wants her tax files recovered. Luckily, she doesn't want the Win98 installation recovered, but it was quite easy to put the drive on another computer and find the data. I have suggested she invest in a CD-R drive and have charged her enough to motivate her in that direction. :)
Posted on 2004-01-16 21:07:03 by bitRAKE
rake, do a base install with all drivers/apps/tweaks etc and do a ghost of it. Partition the disk in two, one for apps/windows and one for data (remember to put stuff like outlook mail archive on the data partition etc). That way, it's a *lot* less effort to do a fully working system restore.
Posted on 2004-01-16 21:14:42 by f0dder
Thanks f0dder, I did the same thing in the DOS 2.0 days with the backup image on the second drive because I had a stack of 20meg drives that were on the shady side, and every couple months one would go bad -- some of them were okay once all the really bad sectors were marked bad. The loss of data was really cutting into my learning x86 time, but what can one expect from computers found in the trash. :)
Posted on 2004-01-16 22:15:00 by bitRAKE
Hi all,

I have used Norton branded products for at least 10 years now (back when they were Peter Norton's). I personally have never had trouble using them. They have always worked as advertised. I have not used Ghost. I have used PowerQuest products for about 5 years now. I have never had trouble using them. They have always worked as advertised. As they say, your mileage may (will he he) vary. Nonetheless, the very nature of these kinds of products is high risk. I have always noted the warnings about data loss when using them. Larger corporations will have trouble at times with staffing; and no corporation is better than its personnel.

Posted on 2004-01-17 10:47:58 by cdquarles