What the hell is wrong with you people?
Ultrano writes a perfectly legitimate set of macros to allow you to code stuff thats callable from c and c++ and thats not enough, now he's expanding it for COM support to allow VB coders to access your gear, and theres virtually NOBODY interested? You ought to be ashamed of yourselves - as asmcoders, they form our market, you blithering idiots !! Who else is gonna write superfast and compact ocx's and dll's if not us? I'm bitterly disappointed in you all, especially those of you who complain about cross assembler compatibility of macros and then base all their public work around Invoke, mcall, coinvoke etc.
Wake up, its time to appreciate the fine work of our regulars and support it instead of backbiting and complaining about what could be ... are you doing anything to make it better?
No wonder Hutch left this board, he must have felt as needed as a grass seed in a hayshed .:mad: I hope to see some more action around here or I'll be next, theres no reason for me to be here if I can't grow. I'm happy to pass on what I know but I feel like I'm losing weight.
Apologies to the few of you who actually make this board worthwhile, you know who you are. Apologies to the users I have directed here over the past two years who thought they could gain from being here.
Yes, I'm pissy, I'm old and grumpy, I have better things to do with my time.
Maybe tomorrow I'll regret posting this, but right now that's how I feel.
:mad:
Posted on 2004-01-14 09:38:46 by Homer
EvilHomer2k,

please calm yourself down. I have read your post in the COM forum. It is just an anouncement, nothing to be too excited about IMHO. If you will be able to post some real code which in fact offers some benefits compared to existing code we surely will appreciate it.

Japheth
Posted on 2004-01-14 09:43:48 by japheth
Are you trying to tell us that we must use COM even if some of us don't like the COM method?
Please, just as some of us "accept" (:sweat: ok hope you don't missunderstand me, it's not ment negative, just couldn't find a more suitable word) that some code and like the COM method, they who like COM must also accept that there are those that don't like COM - mutual acceptance.
Next time some one asks about COM, direct them to Ultrano's work - and stop whining.
Posted on 2004-01-14 09:50:59 by scientica
Asm code, no matter how much of it, will in most cases need interface to code, written in other languages (or you'll need to convert code easily into asm). Coders that make small static libs, small dlls, medium-sized hosts and plugs, and large hosts/plugs cannot ignore the large codebase that exists for C++ and the standards that have been created for it. Intefacing asm to C++ so far is done like this: make lib, include it in the big almighty c++ project. Why not make the opposite? Because you'd have to hardcode it all, study how c++ works, and pray there is no inheritance or virtuals, nothing dynamic. You can clearly see how many people managed to interface COM, which is just a small part of the work if inheritance is present. Modifying such code can be hell if you want also to preserve the old code, and there is no reason left to continue coding in asm. Fortunately there is now a way to practically get all the best from C++ and other languages, and use it in asm. This solution's name is ATC, and it can be found in the OOP forum. But I don't see any interest in it now, and instead I see members leaving the asm community! I am grateful to the MASM team, and I'm trying to continue their work little by little, I have time since I'm young, but the no-interest stuff is disappointing and I know others at this board feel like me. I want asm to evolve, and so do they. So, I'm giving you the quiestion you will face soon:
how to interface asm with other languages
since at this time there are no other such macro frameworks:

a) give up
b) give up
c) give up
d) try ATC
e) not manage to learn ATC and give up :). Eventually see that you can't even learn C++ so give up coding completely.
Posted on 2004-01-14 09:51:03 by Ultrano
EvilHomer2k, each person does what they can. Ultrano's is very talented and it is obvious from his work. I don't think it is wise to down-play the work of other by comparison when not everybody has the same goals as Ultrano or yourself. You make some good arguments in your post though. It has been known by many that there is commercially viable ASM coding in the component area, and all tools to further development in this area will help many put food on the table. If you find yourself becoming stagnant around here and unable to grow then it could be time to change gears. Or we could talk about how to change the environment around here to be more conducive to growth, but please don?t react rashly because of negative assumptions.
Posted on 2004-01-14 10:03:50 by bitRAKE
Someone should probably move this thread - it quite obviousle doesn't belong here. Secondly, don't tell people who have been coding in asm for a lot longer than you have what to think - if you do some work you think is needed, good for you. If you don't get any interest, too bad. Quit the lameass whining bit. It's uncalled for, at best.

Fake
Posted on 2004-01-14 10:06:25 by Fake51
Ultrano,

your post surely is a bit "better" than Evilhomer2k's one, but I'm afraid still not a good way to interest other people in your work. If it is really such better than other approaches, you will have to "proof" it in some way.

Japheth
Posted on 2004-01-14 10:08:03 by japheth
EvilHomer2k, quite:whine and talk nicely.

I haven't looked into Ultranos work myself, as I tend to use asm
either for only very low-level stuff, or for optimizing pieces of
code - thus, interesting and cool as it may be, I don't have much
use for it. Some other people here do advanced stuff, but more in
the algorithm/optimizing alley - they probably don't need an OOP
framework either. Then there's the hordes of people doing simplistic
API coding, they probably wouldn't know what to do with an OOP
framework. So basically, you're down to people that interface with
VB - they don't usually make much noise around here. Or people who
like full-asm program development, but have seen the light and
realized OOP is good - and those are pretty rare.

Besides, the reason hutch left was that this board isn't his own
little ego kingdom where he can rule supremely - like, what, he
actually had to cooperate with the other moderators? Outrageous!
Posted on 2004-01-14 10:09:01 by f0dder
Thanks guys, I was after a reaction, and I got one :)
I was hoping to liven things up around here since its more stagnant than a backwater pond lately, and if we must code components tailored to X language to make a living, so be it... we can't blithely live in the past, no matter how "cool" the past may have been, its gone and won't be coming back. We need to keep an eye on the future. We are few, which makes THEM the majority, and considering that most of the world is democratic now, it makes THEM right, whether we like it or not.
We need to move with the times, and I think we should start by altering the title of the COM forum, because it scares away newbs, when it shouldn't, since the stuff is merely jumptables, its simple to us, but its scary to them, and if someone comes along and makes things easier without us having to use obscure macros, we should support it !!
Posted on 2004-01-14 10:13:57 by Homer
you will have to "proof" it in some way

Dreamer uses ATC :grin:
Homer managed to easily convert over 5 C++ medium-sized projects in no time. I personally don't need the COM stuff, but it can be very useful to anyone who may like it. OOP isn't a must-have, but it's useful at many places, and most c++ examples use it.
Posted on 2004-01-14 10:22:21 by Ultrano
Well, I defintely don't use macros much or other HLL type constructs my work now even banishes .IF/.ENDIF etc.., when I use COM which is pretty often now I tend to study the interface and develop a one shot solution for that particular interface. You know, push pointer, mov reg,, and call . I am sure that it is good work as is all of Ultrano's code but I find coinvoke and that stuff is not for me.
Posted on 2004-01-14 10:27:23 by donkey
I am not a masm coder, also like I say in the past, I codelittle, not much really, only for test.

But I am interested in this type of works, also I will read the other Framework, for get more what is happeninf there, is bad that you think that you work will not have any use more than you, be the way, a friend of me in the anterior 6 montsg has give me two says, that help me out:

but it's alright now,
I've learned my lesson well,
you can't please everyone,
so you'd better please yourself.
- Rick Nelson


And the other is, some like:
some times the develop of xApp can be frustating, but what matter is what you learn.


This was in answer when I don some, and themodification not was accepted :D

--------------------------------

Also I have diferent point of view about OOP, in diferent areas, also I have in mind something in the past that I need 'test', when someone propose that rewrite nasm in C++, and some one answer: "OOP is a state of mind".. design.

But keep in touch, I will read your work when I am done with my actuall project.


Have a nice day.
Posted on 2004-01-14 12:05:06 by rea
EvilHomer2k,
What the hell is wrong with you people?

With respect to what?
Ultrano writes a perfectly legitimate set of macros to allow you to code stuff thats callable from c and c++ and thats not enough, now he's expanding it for COM support to allow VB coders to access your gear, and theres virtually NOBODY interested?
Not me, C, C++, VB, COM, and OOP don't interest me too much. Should they?
You ought to be ashamed of yourselves
Why?
as asmcoders, they form our market, you blithering idiots !!
Not me or mine.
Who else is gonna write superfast and compact ocx's and dll's if not us?
Where there is need, they will import coders.
I'm bitterly disappointed in you all, especially those of you who complain about cross assembler compatibility of macros and then base all their public work around Invoke, mcall, coinvoke etc.
You haven't heard me complaining about those things.
Wake up, its time to appreciate the fine work of our regulars and support it instead of backbiting and complaining about what could be ... are you doing anything to make it better?
No, I haven't complained or done anything to make C, C++, and OOP better.
No wonder Hutch left this board, he must have felt as needed as a grass seed in a hayshed
As is his right to do so.
I hope to see some more action around here or I'll be next, theres no reason for me to be here if I can't grow.
As is your right to do so.
I'm happy to pass on what I know but I feel like I'm losing weight.
I wish I could lose some weight.
Apologies to the few of you who actually make this board worthwhile, you know who you are. Apologies to the users I have directed here over the past two years who thought they could gain from being here. Yes, I'm pissy, I'm old and grumpy, I have better things to do with my time. Maybe tomorrow I'll regret posting this, but right now that's how I feel.
If it feels good, do it. Ratch
Posted on 2004-01-14 16:00:13 by Ratch
I just started to look at a C++ book and I am starting to realize the OOP can make code a lot cleaner and stuff. Ultrano's work is excellent, but I tend to use the procedural approach to programming when making ASM components rather than the OOP way.
Posted on 2004-01-14 17:29:04 by x86asm
f0dder,


Besides, the reason hutch left was that this board isn't his own little ego kingdom where he can rule supremely - like, what, he actually had to cooperate with the other moderators? Outrageous!


This is bad mannered even by your standards. For someone who cried victimisation when you failed in your tantrums, you perhaps need to learn how to blow your nose, wash behind your ears and mind your own business.

You are right that the masmforum has no talking heads, no script kiddies and will kick them out if they try any nonsense. If this offends you, learn a little humility and good manners and don't walk around with your heart on your sleeve as someone will always tread on it.

I get on with Harold fine as he is mature enough to run his forum in a sensible way and I spend a little time in here when I can to help out but it is not as a free kick for runny nose little sh*ts with an ego problem.

Regards,
http://www.asmcommunity.net/board/cryptmail.php?tauntspiders=in.your.face@nomail.for.you&id=2f46ed9f24413347f14439b64bdc03fd
Posted on 2004-01-14 18:53:36 by hutch--