i still seem to be waiting on Jaymeson Trudgen to nominate a neutral ground where he does not have the capacity to censure my response to his indiscretions. Its fine to flap off his mouth after deleting a number of my posts yet he has not been willing to respond on a level playing field.

I wonder why ? Is it an admission that he botched the topic and was foolish enough to take sides when he was wrong ?

Posted on 2004-03-31 11:57:53 by hutch--
I thought NaN just moved some of your posts to a thread in the crusades, where they were more appropriate and less polluting? I don't think I've seen any moderator on this board abuse their status, probably not even you while it lasted.
Posted on 2004-03-31 12:02:28 by f0dder
Hi Hutch,

It was me who asked NaN to split the topic, he had not done it until I complained that the thread was going to hell and I was interested in the actual topic not the flame war. So, any problems with the split should be directed at me not at NaN. If you check my posts in the thread I asked politely a couple of times for you two to move it to the Crusades and was ignored so I asked NaN to split it.
Posted on 2004-03-31 12:14:53 by donkey
NaN is a moderator and as such he does his moderating duties. He doesn't need to justify his actions as a moderator and has been entrusted with this function, to do what he thinks is best for the board, using his assesment of each situation, his common sense and his grey matter.

As long as nobody can point to any blatant abuse of moderating powers, our moderators are above discussion, take it or leave it.

I hate to remind you but

Members will treat each other with mutual respect and will not fight in the open about personal affairs. While sometimes a difference of opinion can heat up a discussion: stay mature and treat each other with respect, this rule goes for public posts as well as private messages.

still can be found in our rules and I can't perceive this as anything but publicly taunting/poking Jaymeson until he 'bites'.

I can't say I like the impression.
Posted on 2004-03-31 15:25:28 by Hiroshimator
Both Harold and Donkey, I have no beef with either of you but I have requested that Jaymeson respond by nominating a neutral place where he is not in a position to censure my response.

There are a number of matters he raised where it is reasonable that I have right of reply and in particular the issues he raised on moderation which I would normally not raise as it is usually an administration issue.

My request here is a reasonable one and if there is no response after offering the opportunity to do so, it is reasonable that the forum administration remove a number of comments in the original thread that I objected to.

The references to a compiler being a heap of sh*t is one of them, the set of accusations made by the moderator is another and if there is an implicit change in the forum rules to people who come in and ask questions, it should be specified in the rules that the member can be subject to abuse by other members and moderators.

If the forum has changed in its concept and has shifted to something else, it is fair that it be made clear to existing and prospective members.

Now the moderator of the Crusades forum is not displayed on the start screen from memory, can I reasonably assume that Harold is the moderator for this forum ?

Posted on 2004-03-31 19:34:14 by hutch-- is reasonable that the forum administration remove a number of comments in the original thread......The references to a compiler being a heap of sh*t is one of them

No hard feelings, but for someone who calls RosAsm a heap of sh*t on a regular basis, your request looks kind of unappropriate to me.
Posted on 2004-03-31 22:06:30 by JimmyClif
XXX Compiler is a heap of <whatever here> without any other arguments is just a moronic form of opinion, not a personal attack. If anyone takes that personally (barring the feelings of the original developer of XXX) then they probably should go see someone about their low self-esteem.

All supermoderators can moderate this forum. NaN is a supermoderator, if that's what you want to know.

People here should not be subject to abuse, but the only ones always talking about that are you and scali. All the rest sorts it out with me/others when there is a problem. I'm not too petty a person to not offer my apologies when I think someone has been handled wrongly

Just because someone objects something, doesn't make that something in itself questionable or bad...unless one is some kind of puritanical fixated person that doesn't know a strawman from a real argument.

Frankly, the thing I notice is the following: f0dder criticizes PowerBasic, you criticise f0dder personally in an attempt to discredit him/his credibility as a programmer. "kiddie, ignorance, writing code too difficult for f0dder, too advanced for you, foot in mouth, inexperience", usually followed by some jab at this forum of it allowing people to be insulted, not being friendly and what not. Statements such as "i am like many other who come to this forum in that I primarily write assembler language and I don't see that any particular person has any God given right to endlessly inflict their own view over other people about the primacy of one particular compiler over another." just makes that all the more ironic. I think it's the ideal truth and virtue to live by, but it kind of barrs one from calling others imcompetent if one doesn't want to come over as hypocritical.

If this forum truly is unfriendly to you, then just continue posting against it in other forums and get people go to yours, while not visiting this one anymore. Seems a simple enough solution to me. People have always been free to chose. We're not talking against any other forums on this one and I see no reason why we should, the more places people have to get help they seek, the merrier.
Posted on 2004-04-01 03:11:09 by Hiroshimator

Betov started on me in this forum years ago and I did not even know him but note that Betov is allowed to post in the masmforum.


You have answered my question. When your moderator made the mistake of taking sides in this matter, I responded by warning people in the PowerBASIC forum of the attitude of some of your members and moderators because in the first place, I invited many members of that forum to come to this one when I was part of it.

To further the warning, I still don't support those members of this forum who advance virus technology or boast they have tried out PowerBASIC when the only way you can have a copy is to either BUY it or STEAL it and its clear that he did not BUY it.

Viruses and Warez are not a winner for you and I would have thought you knew this. As long as you support this style of activity you leave youself on the chopping block that I worked hard to keep this forum off when I was here.

Posted on 2004-04-01 04:21:31 by hutch--
I don't care that betov is allowed to post in the masmforum, he's not allowed to post here because he's an irritating, condescending person that's on some kind of crusade to rid the world of masm. He has nothing constructive to contribute.

IMO, you just keep him on for your weekly poke-fest anyway. It's fine to enjoy discussing, but don't say you do it out of love for betov or his product.

Totally irrelevant to this discussion of course.

a *warning* ? Of what? That you'll start attacking them? what 'style of activity'? The fact that persons differ in opinion and that I prefer the argument to be attacked as opposed to the person?

As long as this site is used by people, it serves a purpose. that's all it needs to do. "Chopping blocks" and other romantic notions are not really in that picture.

Anyway, once again, this is not about me, nor f0dder, so don't spin it that way. It's not kosher to pinpoint the person like that.
Posted on 2004-04-01 04:53:18 by Hiroshimator
It's pretty clear you're talking about me, and I will not accept such slander.

I don't see how I am advancing virus writing. I do not support such activities, neither here nor elsewhere. If you're referring to discussion of topics such as code injection, those topics have a lot of good use - my XCOM bugfix loader is a good example. Besides, you have a very virii'sh sample in your MASM32 package, namely MOB's noimport sample.

While I don't support virus writing, I do dabble with malware code analysis every now and then, disassembling virii and trojans. I find this interesting, and am toying with the idea of pursuing a career in the 'protection industry'. (Oh, and now is when you'll probably say that antiviral companies don't do virus disassembly and study, as you've said before.)

As for powerbasic, oh, you got me there, evil pirate f0dder! Of course there's not even the remotest of possibility that I actually know someone who has a legit copy and with whom I have discussed matters and received some executables? No, of course not, I didn't think so either.

I don't see where you're going with your "support this style of activity" either. Illegal threads are shut down by the moderators, and poster intent is usually questioned when "potentially bad" questions are asked. But perhaps it's just that sometimes semi-advanced topics whose appliances you do not understand are discussed here?
Posted on 2004-04-01 05:00:41 by f0dder

I in fact have no beef with you as I understand the cross you carry in funding this forum.


After the last performance with you working in tandem with your friend from IRC then working as his proxy to continue the abuse after he was banned, I make no apology for being heavy handed in my approach to you as I am used to the conduct that you exhibit on a regular basis.

You repeated defence of viral coding has not been forgotten in this forum and I don't apologise for my criticism of you or what you defend in this area. Well has the excuse of "investigating" viral techniques been used by virus coders for years but very few are naive enough to be fooled by this stuff.

MOBs example is in fact what it says, it has no imports, by no sense of the idea is there a virus in his code. This is part of the virus mentality that you can share the blame around for antisocial conduct because someone does something similar to what a virus writer does. Does a memory write make a program viral ? Under the theory you espouse, it would seem that it does.

As far as your access to PowerBASIC, your own words were that you tested it and analysed the code in it. Not everyone has a memory so short and you were foolish enough to post this information in a forum run by a friend of yours who is liable for what you do here.

If you are going to use warez, at least shut your mouth about it as you can get someone else into trouble for it.

Posted on 2004-04-01 05:57:44 by hutch--
I do not defend viral coding, and I don't think I've ever have. I do, however, defend the right to analyze malware - since antiviral companies wouldn't be able to create antiviral products without analysis. Same goes for fixing software vulnerabilities.

Fact remains that I have never spread viral code, neither in binary nor source form. Furthermore, I don't discuss viral techniques on public forums, and in private I only do it with people I trust not to abuse the information.

I know people that deal with binary analysis, involving software protection and malware analysis. Most of those are from the #win32asm and #cracking4newbies days, who have "grown up" and are now using the acquired skills for good.

If you're using this as a basis to call me a "virus writer", so be it, but I hope other people are a little more intelligent than a rock and can see through your blatant lies.

If you google around for "mob" or "drcmda", I think you will get more troubling results than if googling for "f0dder". I don't have any problems with MOB, but I find it a bit peculiar it's me you're calling a bad guy. And btw, you're somewhat of a hypocrite - when you were a mod here, you bitched at (or closed down) threads with similar content to the "noimport" sample of mob's included with masm32.

If you care to look at the "Examples and Source Code" section at Iczelion's site, you will also note a couple of troubling things, including the IceGhost softice hider, and NukeIt!, a nuker with IP spoofing. Perhaps you should start calling Iczelion a "virus writer" for hosting these examples.

Btw, congratulations in diverting the attention and starting yet a war.

As far as your access to PowerBASIC, your own words were that you tested it and analysed the code in it. Not everyone has a memory so short and you were foolish enough to post this information in a forum run by a friend of yours who is liable for what you do here.

You will have to excuse me for not being a native English speaker, but I thought disassembling executables generated with it applies as "testing" and "analyzing code". I'm sorry, but I think you overestimate PowerBASIC, I wouldn't even want to warez a product like that.
Posted on 2004-04-01 08:42:58 by f0dder
isn't this just the same old bullsh*t used by viral coders around the world to pull off the fantasy that they are doing something useful instead of the destructive nasty little shits that they are ?

AV research is done by BIG business, not script kiddies trying to cover up their own dirty little past. The same conceited smirking little bastards that wreak havoc with innocent people to boost their own status among their peers ?

i am still astounded that you would put your friends at risk boasting about warez when its patently obvious that to do the testing and comparison you boasted about the you had a stolen copy of PB to do it with ?

Do you think that anyone is so naive that they would wear a cover story like that one. Its not your arse on the line running a forum but you still have used this forum as a vehicle for viral coding.

I am hard on you for a reason, I used to think you had so much talent but like most old fellas, I am not tolerant to failure and where you have failed is in realising what you could do well, not sliding back into the same old crap over and over again while playing another reargard action to cover it up.

Everybody and their dog know the rhetorical devices used by the virus brigade to piss in each others pocket to establish the feeling of mutual profundity while living in this fantasy land of thinking that anyone else is fooled by this nonsense.

A very basic rule you have yet to learn is never shit on your friends and this is exactly what you are doing when you use this forum as a vehicle for viral technology with indifference to who it reflects on.

You are not a child anymore and you need to learn some responsibility when it comes to dealing with other people and the first thing you do is stop kidding yourself.

Posted on 2004-04-01 10:11:35 by hutch--
Heh, I wish this was just an aprils fool joke. You're way out there, hutch.
Posted on 2004-04-01 10:28:36 by f0dder
I see no real argument is coming forth here, time to put an end to it.

I'm also getting tired of your baseless accusations of viral promotion, cracking interests and other things you want to rub on people that clearly don't do so. Our rules are very clear on the matter, the policy is also, the fact that f0dder is still around clearly proves you wrong in this matter.
Posted on 2004-04-01 10:32:06 by Hiroshimator
While Hiroshimator has closed this thread, I feel since my name is posted all over it, I should at least indicate my point of view to the general public that may actually be thinking Hutch 'has a point' in anything he has accused me of:

(1) I did not delete any one of his responses, yet he continues to repeatedly insist I did. Even after I indicated this fact publicly which was followed by his acknolegement. I did not modify any of his responses. Had I done so an edit note would appear on his reply at the bottom, similar to this reply itself. In my opinion, he chooses to accuse me of these actions to falsely sway public opinon of this boards moderators and its practices.

(2) I have chosen no sides. If f0dder were to demonstrate the level of direct abuse to any user that Hutch had done to f0dder in the origional post, I would give f0dder the same treatment. If he began to slander my character for doing so, I would also produce a similar statement of how I see him behaving. With my reasons stated clearly.

(3) I do not abuse my moderating abilities. I moderate to the best of my ability with a focus that independant of the people involved, but rather the rules as outlined by Hiroshimator.

(4) I do not feed trolls. Hutch is a bully and blind by opinion. I have but one opinion as a moderator, "which rule was broken, and by whom". He will continue to post rederic against me, this board, and members whom in his opinion are "silently conspiring" to take advantage of new assembly programmers. I do not encourage anyone to post in the defense of Hutch or myself over this topic. As far as I am concerned, I have fullfilled my responsibility to our members in general, and do not wish to prove why I feel this way on some "neutral ground". This kind of taunting only firms up my opinion that this bully wont stop until he is satisfied his opinion is met. That said, I caution the general public from engaging opinionated conversation with Hutch.

I will openly defend Hutch on the next encounter that warrents his defense, however, this time it was clearly his error and he will have to accept this. I will not engage in any further response on this topic.

Posted on 2004-04-01 18:31:18 by NaN