I am not into 3d programming , but i know to make a 'perfect' curve you need a 'lot' of polygons, but quake 3 manages to have curves everywhere and it doesnt seem that their polygon count is that high. i mean UT was released at around the same time and it didnt have anyway 'near' the kinds of curves the quake engine had.

What does john carmack use to make those surfaces so curvy and so fast?
Posted on 2004-04-26 15:34:28 by clippy
Short answer: lots of polys.
Longer answer: the UT engine was (is?) not very optimal because it is aimed at multiple targets. The Quake engines are optimized for OpenGL, with some vendor-specific optimizations (mostly nvidia).
This allows the engine to render many more polygons in the same time.
Another thing that probably also helps, is that Quake uses good textures and lightmaps, that improve the curved appearance.
But triangles and lines is all that 3d accelerators can render, so this is what you always see. This was especially true back in 1999 ofcourse.
Posted on 2004-04-26 16:39:30 by Scali
they tweak the textures and normals al lot ;)
Posted on 2004-04-26 19:33:42 by BogdanOntanu
yeah, it still is flat polys.

i wondered a little by seeing some arcades curve, if it was some kind of perfect-to-the-pixel curves, but its not, and its not possible without something like raytracing...

well, i once elaborated (only in my mind :) some kind of 3d en gine based on 3d curves that would not be poly based nor rayreaced, still objects that you rotate and display sequentially, but complex cureved objects... maybe too complicated... oh well, triangles are cheap nowadays :)

in Q3:
aim at an arcade; if you move forward, the poly count increases as you get closer(LOD), so it looks good.

aim at an arcade, and ZOOM instead of walking: no polys are added, you see the edges!
Posted on 2004-04-27 09:40:45 by HeLLoWorld
Yes, and that is ;).
Posted on 2004-04-27 10:17:10 by rea
they tweak the textures and normals al lot


Quake 3 doesn't actually use normals at all at runtime, afaik. All light is prebaked or image-based, I believe.
Other than that, the normals aren't 'tweaked', just smoothed, as is common in polygon models.
Posted on 2004-04-27 12:58:51 by Scali
Yes what I wanted to say was "smooth" but since smoothing the normals makes the model "look"more curved/less rectangular even when it is not like that in "reality" ... i have used the word "tweak"

The idea is that by carefully choosing normals and textures used in model an engine can make you believe that there is more detail there... more than it really is, usually because our brain acts like an integrator filling in the small gaps :grin:
Posted on 2004-04-27 15:03:01 by BogdanOntanu
Afternoon, HeLLoWorld.

in Q3:
aim at an arcade; if you move forward, the poly count increases as you get closer(LOD), so it looks good.

aim at an arcade, and ZOOM instead of walking: no polys are added, you see the edges!

In MOH:AA (Medal of Honor: Allied Assault) which uses the Q3 engine:
When you zoom using the sniper scope, the LOD increases (you see more detail).
Is zooming done differently in plain Quake 3?

Cheers,
Scronty
Posted on 2004-04-27 20:45:58 by Scronty
Indeed, per-pixel lighting with normalmaps and parallax mapping can fake curves and details even more accurately these days. ATi has a nice demo of a car that shows some of it here:
http://www.ati.com/developer/demos/r9700.html
The actual poly model is remarkably low in detail. You can see it with the Normalmapper tool, here: http://www.ati.com/developer/tools.html
But that's all far more advanced than Quake3 ofcourse.
Posted on 2004-04-28 01:56:08 by Scali
in Q3, optins, you can choose lighting: vertex or lightmap.

for the zooming in mohaa, i dunno, but the zoom must just be a function on top of the engine.
Posted on 2004-04-28 03:50:16 by HeLLoWorld
you could already zoom in Q1 by pressing F11 i think, and it didnt work in the ogl version.
Posted on 2004-04-28 03:51:21 by HeLLoWorld
in Q3, optins, you can choose lighting: vertex or lightmap.


IIRC the vertex lighting was an alternative to the lightmaps. This was done for cards that didn't support multitexturing. The lightmap was simply approximated by storing a light value at every vertex, and interpolating those. This way, only one texture was required.
Posted on 2004-04-28 05:48:06 by Scali
In MOH:AA (Medal of Honor: Allied Assault) which uses the Q3 engine:
When you zoom using the sniper scope, the LOD increases (you see more detail).
Is zooming done differently in plain Quake 3?


(I dont remember if is in mohaa or other, but that uses q3 engine) Actually I think is the same (technique of zoom, but there is a trycky.. that maybe can be implemented easely), only a triky way of do that, I think instead of use a zoom, or some like that, is used put the camera where you zoom, instead of the zoom, but the 'bot' or player that you are using is not there. is only the camera, this is: because for what when you zoom, you see the increase on polis, when in reality you are not zooming (real zooming will cause the efect described for the sniper in q3a), instead, the camera is moved, and is like if you where there, like 'teleport' (and let your body where is, but move your eyes to that place) also a little problem about this is if you move the scope to a near escalera you will see the sign of the hands that you can climb, I think that is a proof that instead of making a zoom, you are moving the display point, or the camera that have the player to that place.




I dont know if you understand this, because for redact this type of things, where I need descrive some apear to be more dificult for me.


Have a nice day or night.
Posted on 2004-04-29 12:20:14 by rea
The -real- answer to your question is Bezier curves. Quake 3 automatically determines the number of polygons required to make it look rounded. I've implemented it in my software Quake 3 map renderer as well: http://softwire.sourceforge.net/extra.html. You can find example code in freely available Quake 3 renderers...
Posted on 2004-04-29 16:34:33 by C0D1F1ED
yes hgb its clear, thats what i was meaning

codified, your work is simply amazing!

640.480.32 and bilinear on a quake map at P4 2.6620 fps on this P4 2.66!
Posted on 2004-04-30 11:08:04 by HeLLoWorld