sheesh, i remember programming in cobol on 80 column punch cards, hmmm way back in 1979! Then progressed to HP Basic and then assesmbly. Boy, the IBM System 3 was the ticket back then.......

I must have seen Star Wars 10 times that summer.
Posted on 2001-11-20 14:35:46 by UrgeOverKill
Ha ha... AlexEiffel: i just read this thread, and guess what book is sitting beside me, on top of a physics and chemistry textbook? Peter Norton's Assembly Language Book for the IBM PC! :)) anyway, i was one of those non-asm proggers before... in fact, i guess you could say i was a non-programmer since i only used GW-BASIC for 5 years before i discovered there was even a QB!

then, around 7 years ago, i stumbled across an old book in my basement; it was some book on 8086/8088 assembly programming. wasn't quite hooked. actually, it was a passing fad (i checked of 5-10, anyway)... until three years ago, when i picked it up again... been doing win32 programming for about a year, only, though.

since then, i've let someone borrow my 8086/8088 book (which is an *excellent* book) trying to convert them :)

i guess that goes to show, f0dder (from a post in another board, here), that not all fanatics are stuck /w saying one lang is better than another :) i converted from VB to asm, with a short step of some old pre-ANSI version of C on two 5 1/4 floppies - besides, to get an assembler, the price is right!
Posted on 2002-03-23 12:14:19 by jademtech
I sure have missed this thread..hmm Where was I when this thread started?

I have to admit, I have been programming in asm just last summer :) I've been always a HLL guy(C, Java, C++, VB, BASIC...). I was in this programming chatroom one day, the topic was about assembler. During that time, I know what assembler was but didn't have the guts to learn it. A few weeks later, I challenged myself to try it. So it was, the journey in ASM HELL, I tell you I've been anguishing at that time for tutorials around the net but too bad most of them aren't that concise in explaining for a true beginner in ASM...rant! rant! rant!

On a sample tutorial:
...you must push eax because on x procedure eax will be battered out...
Me: What the hell does "eax will be battered out" means? rant! rant! rant! :)

After a long winding journey in ASM HELL... I've finally come out of the catacombs crawling.

I tell you the whole ASM learning experience is a bit discouraging but when you start running the whole concept of ASM will just fall into the right places. ;)
Posted on 2002-03-23 14:04:50 by stryker
personally, i didn't find learning assembly as daunting as figuring out how to put it together to do something useful. i guess i found it more trivial, too, because i've still spent most of my time writing DOS/BIOS-level code. however, as far as syntax goes, assembly... great!
instruction dest, source
how much easier can it get? ;) but the hours going over Intel's manuals (i don't have any non-Intel procs) on getting tight code... yowsah! i still can't produce really tight code, though can produce much faster versions than i could using either C or VB.

which reminds me of the asm vs. ADA thing in the Crusades folder...

anecdote alert!
i was writing a program to do a simple Caesar-decryption (i.e. T'=T+k) of some data file.

however, first time, we were on a school computer /w only VBA in the Office suite installed... so the file was read into a string. then, using a bunch of MIDs to go through the thing, adding k, finding modulus, writing. the time it took was something in the order of 10 minutes. ouch. rewrote /w a lookup table. 5 minutes. still ouch.

writing it in C, the file was loaded into a string and parsed in about half a minute.

in assembly? i could parse the file more than once per second!

what was keping VB back? well, in C, i kept on advancing the pointer, so i had something like sText=sText+k;iPos++
in assembly, pretty much the same thing... something like this:
mov edx,
sub ebx,4

add edx,eax
mov ,edx

VBA's method of using MIDs had timings grow n^2 (i tested it on smaller files). replacing the MID function by reading the entire file into an array of byte sized strings, i just parsed from the LBOUND to UBOUND (stored in another variable, of course)... took something like 40 seconds or so. not too bad.
Posted on 2002-03-23 14:35:14 by jademtech
I started when I was 13, with a very obsolete (for that time) Vic20's 6502 CPU.. in march 1987 (after 2 months that I got the computer). The year after I bought an Amiga 500, and 68000 assembly was an immediate start. Now I'm 28, that makes 15 years of assembly programming. Seems yesterday though. I regret I began so late, seriously. It was already many years that I desired to have a computer anyway.
Posted on 2002-03-23 16:02:15 by Maverick
i started assembly when i was ten. so about six or seven years ago... but i had used HLAs before. old habits die hard.

i wish i had learned assembly as my first language, like you.

btw, i didn't actually use MASM until a couple of years ago. prior to that, i had been using DEBUG and piping instructions through from a file. quite ghetto ;)
Posted on 2002-03-23 16:12:36 by jademtech
dBase III -> Clipper -> C -> C++ -> Assembly 3 years now... I wonder what's next.... Dementia perhaps ?:grin: I remember I bought my first PC in order to organize my huge record collection, but right now I feel like a programmer caged in a pharmacist's body :)
Posted on 2002-03-23 20:11:48 by micmic
I remember being in school I most have been about 6 or 7. We had a BBC master or micro or whatever and we used to play this realy simple racing car game. Along came the teacher and I said how do they make games and she said she had know idea. a few years later I got my first computer a c64. All I had was basic I had heard about something called machine code and offen saw games saying they were coded in machine code but had no idea what it was. I longed to change the boring blank screen that was there when my programs loaded from tape like the tapes I bought but there seamed to be no BASIC command to do it. I remember reading about a modem cartrage for the c64 wich I asked my parents for and was told it's ilegal to access another computer down the phone line :)
When I first got my PC in 96 I hadn't programmed for a long time once I got online I download a lot of tutorials and compilers. My first language was c then I tried a little c++ and then ASM. I never realy coded anything in 16 bit I would have loved to have been a part of the old MS-DOS days... oh well
Posted on 2002-03-23 22:12:28 by Quantum

When I first got my PC in 96 I hadn't programmed for a long time once I got online I download a lot of tutorials and compilers. My first language was c then I tried a little c++ and then ASM. I never realy coded anything in 16 bit I would have loved to have been a part of the old MS-DOS days... oh well


hmmm... /me thinks back to those old MS-DOS days... me and my 286 (which was purchased around when i was born) didn't part until mid 90s. i only really stopped using it maybe three or four years ago. i miss the days of GUI-less computers... the mouse can be pretty annoying AFAI'm concerned, unless i'm working explicitly /w graphics (like in GIMP or something). Only one of the four computers in this room has a mouse. And i'm using it. tabbing through links is *not* fun... /me remembers using LYNX (is that the correct spelling?) on a terminal at the University of Toronto to "surf."
Posted on 2002-03-23 22:18:28 by jademtech

prior to that, i had been using DEBUG and piping instructions through from a file. quite ghetto ;)
Wasn't it great! People that actually saw me walk up to any computer and start programming were really dumbfounded. Almost every C:\DOS had a DEBUG! :)
Posted on 2002-03-23 22:27:14 by bitRAKE

Wasn't it great! People that actually saw me walk up to any computer and start programming were really dumbfounded. Almost every C:\DOS had a DEBUG! :)


oh, yes, those were the days :) now, i can use DEBUG for some parlour tricks. like very compact programs that fill the screen with something that looks like a BSOD... at school, i replaced all the icons on my personal desktop /w these BSOD programs... need to borrow my computer? BLAMMO :) nice little compact program that doesn't take long to load, regardless of network traffic. *wink* *wink*

yeah, i'm cruel. so whatsit to ya? jks... but think of this way: be glad you'll probably never meet me!
Posted on 2002-03-23 22:30:18 by jademtech
I started programming in assemble from 6 years ago. I started with "Peter Norton guide for Assembly Language for the PC" 2nd edition then, I got the 3rd edition it was the first one to let me start 32bit programming (3rd one not the 2nd), Then I used the Intel Microprocessor reference for programming it was hardware mainly, but it was good at that time for dos programmer. And thanks to Icezelion for his helpful tutorial that made me ontrack with the windows programming in assembly. And thanks for hutch for his helpful tools.
Thats all
Posted on 2002-03-23 22:43:24 by amr

I started programming in assemble from 6 years ago. I started with "Peter Norton guide for Assembly Language for the PC" 2nd edition then, I got the 3rd edition it was the first one to let me start 32bit programming (3rd one not the 2nd), Then I used the Intel Microprocessor reference for programming it was hardware mainly, but it was good at that time for dos programmer. And thanks to Icezelion for his helpful tutorial that made me ontrack with the windows programming in assembly. And thanks for hutch for his helpful tools.
Thats all


there are a second and third ed.?! doh. i'm gonna hafta dig me out one of those from some garage sale or some used book place. no way i'm doling out even $59.95 - which was the cost of the book 'round when i was born. i guess they wouldn't happen to be selling the 3rd (or later) ed. on e-Bay Canada or anything ;)
Posted on 2002-03-23 22:47:01 by jademtech
I don't think so you need it, only if you want to program in dos because it's mainly dos programming not windows it just gave a small hint about using it in windows
Posted on 2002-03-24 23:34:01 by amr

I don't think so you need it, only if you want to program in dos because it's mainly dos programming not windows it just gave a small hint about using it in windows


if you were replying to me (i ASSUME CS:codeseg you were), i want some hard book copy of instruction timings (not including stuff i print off a website or help file)... and i sometimes like to delve into OSsy stuff, which i guess is off-topic in win32ASM.
Posted on 2002-03-25 17:27:04 by jademtech
If you are looking for the instruction timing, YOU my need the Intel Processor Reference. It is downloaded from the Intel website but about Having a book. This book that I have is for the digital electronics in the computer which explain assembly too.
The books name is :
"The 80X86 IBM PC and Compatible Computers" Volume I and Volume II,
Were Volume I is the assembly Course and Volume II is the computer digital design course
ISBN: 0-13-758509-8 by Prentice-Hall
Posted on 2002-03-26 05:19:00 by amr
Well, I have been programming in 16-BIT Assembly since about 1995 (Peter Norton's book "Assembly for the IBM PC"), and I have been studying Win32Asm since year 2000.
:alright:
Posted on 2002-03-26 15:58:16 by The SharK
I have posted here a txt document that contains a list of the insturction with there timing I think It would help you jademtech .
Try It
Posted on 2002-03-26 23:40:50 by amr