http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39181464,00.htm
so the question that come to my mind is
"at what point will windows be a free O/S"
by free I mean like internet exploiter not open source
you know just so M$ can keep there foot in the door
or will thay port there apps over to linux ?
Posted on 2004-12-17 22:27:29 by rob.rice
you mean free as in no $ to pay? Never. Why should they, it's what earns them money and they're welcome to it.
Posted on 2004-12-18 04:03:47 by Hiroshimator
Plan to, and will do are different matters. Post a story when they have.

People in business have realised they've got a stick to beat MS with when negotiating (which is no bad thing), but it doesn't mean that MS won't fight back. Expect the man megaphone Ballmer to fly out there and have a quiet chat about pricing.

Mirno
Posted on 2004-12-18 11:00:48 by Mirno
Interesting, there is no competition, Linux is free :). But there are no real OS that can put in pair with Windows in the PC market, supose that there exist a OS for PC in the market, stable, secure with full compatibility with the formats more used by microsoft (also pheraphs microsoft will fight against this??), then buy the standars :) if them are for sale, or offer new and more efective standars for example for document formats, new editors and other things, the point is that this OS can be at less at the pair of Windows, if this company sale is OS for 10% of the price of Windows, then Windows will go down or they should down the cost of his product, because in that case dont will be a must have like normally is when you buy a new PC...


But such OS not exist and I think is relatively far from exist :)... and for such cost???


The question is, if you find a OS that is best than Windows, yu will recognogize it?, you will buy it for$20 dollars


You see the market of Games there are a lot of games some very good others no, but is a more active (be active I mean new things dosent matter that some histories are similar or that the group of the game is define: RPG, FPS,...)market than the market of the OS PCs, then there is no competition for Windows out there, Linux isnot a competition in fact, because Linux havent taked much, when Linux take much market I guess Windows will start with lower prices, but because windows still in the same prices, I guess they dosent consider Linux a potential competitor....
Posted on 2004-12-18 11:55:50 by rea
you mean free as in no $ to pay? Never. Why should they, it's what earns them money and they're welcome to it.


WRONG

there real money comes from apps about 80%
and olny >10% from windows
(this comes from an interview with Balmar I read (I think it was on cnet.com)
and this is why thay aern't in a hurry to bring out a newer version of windows )
and yes thay would give it away for free just to provide a platform to run there apps on
(rember netscape and how much did you pay for internet exploiter?)

rea
the day someone can walk in to a computer store and buy a computer with linux
installed and configured it will be competeing with windows BUT not untill then
that will not happen untill the public knows about linux and demands the OEMs
provide it who would pay for the t.v. adds the big distros are pressed to do
what thay are doing thay don't want to expand enought to justfiy the price of
the adds
Posted on 2004-12-18 15:52:22 by rob.rice
there real money comes from apps about 80%
and olny >10% from windows
and yes thay would give it away for free just to provide a platform to run there apps on

I wonder if you could find any company that's really willing to lose 10% of it revenue...

Hey, if you don't mind, send 10% of your monthly earnings to 733-0171654-91 KBC Bank, Belgium. It will be well spend on application software. Thanks!
Posted on 2004-12-18 16:05:06 by C0D1F1ED
better 10% than 90%
Posted on 2004-12-18 16:12:44 by rob.rice
it still is what earns them money and they're still welcome to it. If people want to buy MS Windows then that's great for MS. I like certain forms of freedom and I'm grateful that I can use a lot of fine software at no charge but I absolutely abhor the freeloaders mentality exhumed by some of the (GPL freaks) OSS community.

No offense meant but OSS will never venture into certain terrains if people don't start paying for some things. Why is MS Office the king of all office suites? Because MS put a lot of $ in it...they can only do so because people give them a lot of $ in return.

Patents stifle innovation, GPL stifles motivation. That's all I'm going to say about it.
Posted on 2004-12-18 17:17:43 by Hiroshimator
Hey Harold,

Nice quote. I like it. Can I use it?
Posted on 2004-12-18 20:41:39 by roticv
you seem to have misundersotde my point
(I woulden't use windows even if it were free I for one hate being treated like I'm
dummer than my computer I'm not hopping for a free windows )
thay have tacken a big hit from linux in Argntina
so hero do you think MS will port there apps over to linux
or give windows away for free in order to keep there market shaire
for there apps ( thay have lost market share for there apps in Argentina )
after all linux dosen't run MS office or excel or encrta


I have never sed MS shoulden't make money

but I will say thay shoulden't use there position to crush others
like thay will as soon as long horn comes out and have in the past
( there will be no assembly acesses to long horne for the small
guy ) here is a link to that info http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f200400/200457.htm
section III.J.2
Posted on 2004-12-18 21:28:58 by rob.rice
wether or not they'll port their apps over is not very important. What our linux world needs are apps that are as good (enough) for the general population to use so that they can no longer care about using windows or MS Word for instance. To get that you actually need money and a team of hard-working people, just like MS has, so this would be pay-for software, which I get the impression is scoffed at by many linux folk. (yes, I know IBM and others do this but that's nothing like hundreds of little guys programming with all their heart to make a great little application that normal people need as opposed to the business world... heck linux still doesn't have a decent mp3 player application and notepad kicks gedits butt...)


Right now MS doesn't need to give windows away for free, they have no significant competition. They'll lower their prices in the asian countries no doubt but as long as they strong-arm the activation scheme and make it more powerful, the stream of revenue of their OS will actually go up.

It's very hard to switch people to linux because it's already hard enough for them to use Windows, MS realizes this well and makes programs as accessible and easy as possible (which I personally absolutely hate if it gets in my way). If you want people to make an educated choice, you'll first need to educate them and there again the OSS movement is at a monetary disadvantage. (MS can throw millions at advertising, studies, promotions, ...)

That link is old news. Frankly MS does not need to leverage that position anymore... OEM will ship it with windows from the factory and let customers do the troubleshooting because it saves them the hassle of selling 'sans OS' equipment which they just get returned because their customer can't handle it(installing the OS).

My mother uses linux... know why? Because I put it up there, should I've put BEOS on it, she would've used that..she's completely at my mercy in that aspect. Lots of people are like that, oblivious to the computer or underlying consequences and just wanting it to 'work' :|

Text is written to get quoted, Victor. ;) BTW your supermod status is active now.
Posted on 2004-12-19 04:12:20 by Hiroshimator
"heck linux still doesn't have a decent mp3 player "
check out
http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/design7/news.html
because there isen't just one linux or just one way to acess the display
you do need to do some configuration ( its realy a movie player but it has
done just about every thing I have come acrost on the net )

"notepad kicks gedits butt."
I have no idea what gedit is but there are hundreds of editors for linux
cooledit (midnightcommander's default editor is almost exactly DOS edit)
works well and has a function key commands for the most used commands
on screen

"but as long as they strong-arm the activation scheme and make it more
powerful, the stream of revenue of their OS will actually go up. "
and push people over to linux (thanks M$ may be soon I'll be making my
money with linux)

I have ben loking at used computers lately and to my suprise most > 3 years
old have linux installed on them and linux has ben getting easyer to set up
X even configures it self on vesa video cards ( just 'startx' and bang it's up and running )

there is a false rumor that programmers can't make money by writing programs for linux thay can but not with free tools thay will have to spend money to make money and buy a compiler and libarays I have come acrost about 12 compiller packages most work with linux binutils some come with there own intel has one you can use it free for non-commercial use
http://www.intel.com/software/products/noncom/
and there is nothing GPL about it BUT you need to pay for it if you want to make money with it (as it should be I do H.V.A.C. and nobody has ever given
me my trade tools except my bosses but only to make my work go faster )
Posted on 2004-12-19 21:10:01 by rob.rice
listen I've used linux as my primary desktop for almost 3 years now, I don't think there is any mp3 player you can throw at me that I haven't tried yet.

I have settled on muine but it's still no match for winamp + bandlist

How on earth will you as a programmer make money with programs that *anyone* can legally resell? (you'll be reinventing a lot of wheels if you want to avoid this)

Worst case scenario: 1 sale ever.
Posted on 2004-12-20 16:54:52 by Hiroshimator
I'm not that good as a programmer to make money from it
( at least not more than HVAC have you had your furnice worked on lately )
what I hope is that there will be a need for someone to fix configure
install linux alot like people do with windows now

yes a lot of wheels would have to be reinveted someone better than me
could make money at this
the gpl dosen't say you can't reverse engernear gpl soft ware
I am willing to help anyone with source olny libraries and programs by
compillihg it for them for free as long as thay use slack I'll send then a slack package thay can install
so thay never have to have the source code on there computer or ever have to see the source
Posted on 2004-12-20 18:48:16 by rob.rice
Having source is not as important as having a working program - especiallly not to end-users. Even a regular programmer will not be able to /want to do more than fix a couple of 5-minute idiocies to get a program running.
Posted on 2004-12-20 19:47:35 by f0dder
Having source is not as important as having a working program - especiallly not to end-users. Even a regular programmer will not be able to /want to do more than fix a couple of 5-minute idiocies to get a program running.


true veary true
but it also depends of how computer savie someone thinks thay are ( or hard headed like me )

but for the market people have the right to expect something to work out of the box
with veary little effort

Hay F0dder
is there more of a point in your post that I'm missing here
I think there is more to what your saying than I replyed to
Posted on 2004-12-20 20:58:31 by rob.rice
*very, *savvy, *they, *very, *hey, *replied
Posted on 2004-12-21 03:27:20 by f0dder
The GPL let you watch all the code and rewrite it form scratch :) (not need to do reverse engienering).

I have talked a little (very little) with the guys at gcc, some one there say me: hey, you can read all the code and get some ideas from there, then you can rewrite it (from scratch) and if you havent watching the code, then you dont need to be under GPL.

Also talked me about the clonation of apps in big companies, for example, he say that there exist two groups, one for the interface and one for implement the functionalities of the interface and in that way, in the court you can prove tha you wherent watching (reverse enginiering and app) and it can not be tacked like a derivation or some like that.
Posted on 2004-12-21 11:58:11 by rea
*very, *savvy, *they, *very, *hey, *replied


isen't a cheap shot like this beenth you
your wit is sharper than this
now do better
Posted on 2004-12-27 17:51:03 by rob.rice
Language is an important part of conveying an argument, and while you may consider it a cheap shot, it is a valid point.

For instance, the quote you've got:
Friends don't let friends use windows

By not capitalising the W of windows, you treat is as the object window, rather than the name WindowsTM the Microsoft product. Now this really is me being pedantic, but it certainly illustrates the point.

Having said that, I shouldn't complain as I'm dyslexic, and can't spell for toffees.

Mirno
Posted on 2004-12-27 17:59:16 by Mirno