Posted on 2006-06-09 01:26:30 by daydreamer
from Microsoft? didn't hutch---- make masm?
Posted on 2006-06-09 02:30:29 by comrade

from Microsoft? didn't hutch---- make masm?


No, that is a common misconception. Hutch has designed include files and libraries around the MASM product, much in the same way that people make support for NASM/FASM/TASM, hence labelling it MASM32. MASM is legal property of the Microsoft Corporation, the true developers of MASM.
Posted on 2006-06-09 03:15:04 by SpooK
daydreamer, thanks for sharing.

comrade, you're just joking, aren't you?  :)
Posted on 2006-06-09 03:48:39 by MazeGen
comrade you old troll ;)

Interesting, the license for MASM8 is a lot more restrictive than the license for the free Visual <product> Express. You can only use MASM8 for "educational" purposes, whereas you can use the Express products for commercial projects. Weird.
Posted on 2006-06-09 05:05:29 by f0dder
Masm v8 sucks. Two more periods.

I intend, with Biterider's permission, to shift the focus of OA32 from MASM to FASM(32/64) especially since Masm8 is HOBBLED, but really, I'd like to distance myself from Bill$ in general (less than 10% of my coding life has been wasted on his account, I see no reason to continue this trend).
Posted on 2006-06-09 06:24:42 by Homer
I remember I used v8 beta 2 to compile my projects without any problems before few months. Could you be more specific?

As for FASM, it still lacks some important macro features which MASM has. This is one of a few reasons why I still stick to MASM.
Posted on 2006-06-09 06:35:24 by MazeGen
i'd downloaded it and try to install: it asks for visual c++ express edition 2005, manually extracted ml.exe refuses to run (i have no such c++ package installed or unpack wrong).
===
it is possible because it needs msvcr80.dll which should come with c++ package...
Posted on 2006-06-09 06:58:28 by Shoo
This is because the information is not complete... the original info is from a post over at the other place (I would link to it but that isn't allowed):

After quite a bit of work and discussion, we now have Microsoft MASM available on the web (and there were some on this board that helped drive the discussions).

It does require VC Express SKU, which has no cost (if you have the other Visual Studio SKUs, they already include MASM).  The link is at: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=7A1C9DA0-0510-44A2-B042-7EF370530C64&displaylang=en

Note that it is for non-commercial use only.  Which means you can use it build hobby products, but nothing that you would sell or use to maintain an enterprise or such things.  But obviously ideal for the hobbyist or those learning assembly language programming.

Feel free to write if you have any questions,

Kang Su Gatlin
Visual C++ Program Manager


Ossa

This was his response later in the thread

I'm glad to see some people downloading it.

I should note that while I would have liked a non-restricted EULA, it was a choice between getting something out to address people whom I knew wanted it today (lots of students and hobbyists) or to wait longer (due to more paperwork, justification, all that not-so fun stuff) to address to address an audience that probably already has MASM.  As someone earlier pointed out, most commercial vendors will either use the DDK or have an MSDN subscription, and get MASM that way.

Also, while MASM is for non-commercial use only, VC Express can be used for commercial development.  See Q4 on this page (the question of commercial use of the Express Editions comes up a LOT):  http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/support/faq/

And yes, baby steps.  Gotta walk before you run... and sometimes when you start running you trip... but you clean your knees and try again.

Kang Su Gatlin


There is another thread in this very forum that describes how to get the DDK which includes MASM.

Posted on 2006-06-09 07:00:40 by Ossa
I had a play with v8 too, and I had some big problems.
v8 has limitations imposed on its macro support - since OA32 is almost totally macro-based, and since v8's eula does not allow for commerical use AT ALL, I cannot support nor recommend it - this is m$'s way of telling us asm coders that we are redundant in their eyes, which is adding insult to injury.. I for one will not take this lying down.
Posted on 2006-06-09 07:07:23 by Homer
Homer: even more limitations on v8 macros than previous stuff? (line-limit length comes to mind).

Ossa: thanks for the transcript. From what Kang Su Gatlin writes, it sounds like a less restrictive version might be available later on - good for those using MASM, I guess :)

Shoo: with manual extract, what errors do you get? Just a "missing msvcr80.dll"?
Posted on 2006-06-09 07:43:46 by f0dder
I haven't had time to play with pelle's assembler. But how about replacing masm with poasm inside OA32 in near future?
Posted on 2006-06-09 09:18:21 by JimmyClif
How did you get a copy of poasm?  I thought he didn't release it yet.
Posted on 2006-06-09 09:57:25 by drhowarddrfine
It's been out for a while now, see http://www.asmcommunity.net/board/index.php?topic=24741.0

Ossa
Posted on 2006-06-09 10:01:57 by Ossa
Regardless of their usefulness, I gather the express editions are extremely popular based on download speed, the normal speed that I get Microsoft files downloading at is around 350~400 KB/sec the VSE stuff (VC++/VB) is running at somewhere around 45 KB/sec - quite a bit slower !!

It burns me a bit that I bought Visual Studio a few years back for quite a bit of money in order to learn C++, something I never got around to, and to have a licensed version of MASM, something I no longer use. At least with VirtualPC there is a big enough gap between it's capabilities and Virtual Server to warrant buying it. But now they are giving Visual Studio away for free, but then Microsoft has wanted to give away it's dev tools for some time now in order to combat the *nix development environment which is comprised mostly of freeware. It helps to promote development for it's desktop and provides the hobbyists, who are generally the most innovative, free tools to develop for Windows when previously the investment in quality tools was large enough to send them to GNU.

One thing I find amusing is that people at alt.lang.asm etc... are already trying to semantically break down the MASM license agreement in order to circumvent the "only freeware" clause. It's quite funny to see see discussions on the meaning of the word "intent" :)
Posted on 2006-06-11 21:35:18 by donkey
Well, if you do not care about MASM v8, but would like to stick to some older version (like 7.10), get yourself a Kernel Mode Driver Framework 1.1, which, from what I read in the EULA, does not restrict its use.
1. INSTALLATION AND USE RIGHTS. You may install and use any number of copies of the software on your devices to design, develop and test your programs for use with Microsoft Windows software.


Well, I may be wrong, because I don't quite understand the meaning of "commercial software hosting services":
3. SCOPE OF LICENSE. The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways. You may not
    * work around any technical limitations in the software;
    * reverse engineer, decompile or disassemble the software, except and only to the extent that applicable law expressly permits, despite this limitation;
    * make more copies of the software than specified in this agreement or allowed by applicable law, despite this limitation;
    * publish the software for others to copy;
    * rent, lease or lend the software; or
    * use the software for commercial software hosting services.

What does it mean?
Posted on 2006-06-12 03:14:45 by Morris
slow speeds? maybe its cause everyone is leeching Vista beta 2 now
Posted on 2006-06-12 13:03:45 by comrade
:-)
Attachments:
Posted on 2006-06-13 02:47:23 by Shoo
So....as for the copyright issue..
Can I use Hutch's MASM9 to generate commercial program?If I use Hutch's MASM9 to any generate commercial program,
should I ask Microsoft's permission before I sell my program?
If I sell my program without MS's permission, will I violate the copyright law?

Posted on 2006-06-13 23:03:31 by guidry
AFAIK, without paying for a Visual Studio/MASM license... no.
Posted on 2006-06-13 23:30:30 by SpooK