who else agrees that all iczelion realy does is write a program and explain it. Yeah it may help some and help reproduce that program but i think it would be better to just teach syntax and commands.
Like if the MASM tutorials would be writen a little easyer they would be perfect.
Posted on 2006-06-12 20:12:20 by tjweb
Iczelion's tutorials are not aimed at asm newbies, they are aimed at people who already know a bit about assembly language and want to use the Windows API. If you need a more basic tutorial I would suggest...

http://www.madwizard.org/view.php?page=tutorials.contents
Posted on 2006-06-12 20:34:19 by donkey
I believe that Iczelion does a remarkable job with his 30+ tutorials going from easy to advanced. I never had to get past Tut 20 or so before *it* clicked and everything made sense.

What you need is an asm reference beside Iczelion's Tutorials explaining the different opcodes. You can get the 16 bit Art of Assembly here and also the Intel Instruction Set Reference from here.

Also you are supposed to do some inquiries by yourself. If you are unsure about some command or syntax there are helpfiles and manuals available to do the research.
Posted on 2006-06-12 20:36:05 by JimmyClif
Just a forewarning, this post is going to sound rather harsh, but you will either sink or swim in it.

Do not pass your lack of motivation, patience or understanding as a failure on someone else's behalf. Iczelion's tutorials are meant to augment the already established x86 assembly language programmer.

I'll be honest with you tjweb, your recent posts reek of the stereotypical, impatient, "spoon-feed-me" attitude of past script-kiddies we have dealt with.

In short, we will not help you learn ASM over-night to assist you in becoming the "l33t 4tw" in your supposed "legal hacking tourny". If you want to learn assembly language, learn it the right way and for the right reasons.

These our are standards, accept them, or go somewhere else :)
Posted on 2006-06-12 21:12:03 by SpooK
Iczelion's tutorials indeed aren't "learn to program assembly", they're more like "how to use the windows API from assembly". Just like Charles Petzold's "Programming Windows" doesn't teach C, but how to use the windows API from C.

Iczelions tutorials and Petzold's book have a lot in common, by the way.

Take Donkey's advice, Thomas "MadWizard" Bleeker's introduction is quite decent.
Posted on 2006-06-13 05:02:31 by f0dder
Might be better if it was online..

In any case, I'm jumping on the bandwagon with the "Iczelion's for API" point, but I also want to point out that as long as ASM isn't your first language, and you have a little knowledge about the registers, and the commands, you should be able to learn quite a bit about programming in assembly in general form those tutorials as well.

Plus, there's always quite a bit of information that you need to learn on your own by experimenting and messing around with things (now causing GPF's or other BSOD's though :P)
Posted on 2006-06-26 17:22:01 by Bobbias
these tutorial helped me as well as most of us, so (at least from my part) : thanks Iczelion for the time spent preparing your famous tutorials, i know that's a painful task cos i'm not even able to properly comment my own code
Posted on 2008-04-14 15:31:36 by chlankboot

who else agrees that all iczelion realy does is write a program and explain it. Yeah it may help some and help reproduce that program but i think it would be better to just teach syntax and commands.
Like if the MASM tutorials would be writen a little easyer they would be perfect.


I 100% concur, they mightbe capable of teaching the programs examined and an abillity to mix the programs but there is no feeling of learning or understanding.

No offense to iczelion or Hutch
Posted on 2008-07-02 23:09:24 by kaiplak
kaiplak: again, the purpose of Iczelion's tutorials isn't teaching assembly, but showing how to use the win32 API through assembly. While you can learn assembly from them if you're persistent enough, you're really meant to have picked up at least the basics elsewhere first.

Personally, I learned a lot about the API from Iczelion's stuff (since I picked up those tutorials before I heard of Charles Petzold's book). You should combine reading the tutorials with cross-referencing an API reference, though... and not crappy old win32.hlp, get something recent (or use the online MSDN documentation).
Posted on 2008-07-03 06:49:30 by f0dder
f0dder:
>I learned a lot about the API from Iczelion's stuff (since I picked up those tutorials before I heard of Charles Petzold's book).

I like Iczelion's "Win32 API Tutorial" (and of course Petzold's "Programming Windows", 1998) too. Once (long ago) it was happy day when I red it first time...

But now, after years, I must say to beginners following: don't learn "Dialog Box" from Petzold's chapter 11 (and so - from Iczelion's lessons 10-11).
One astounding fact: there is no neither sound about DefDlgProc! Plus some serious mistakes in lessons 10-11.

I think beginners must learn "Dialog Box" with help of MSDN's article Dialog Box Programming Considerations and blog The Old New Thing + book "Practical Development Throughout the Evolution of Windows" (2006) by Raymond Chen.
Posted on 2008-09-13 21:30:06 by kero
When you begin learning a new language you want to write a program and make it run very quickly.
Once it runs you try to understand.

For all of this, Iczellion was great.

Sometimes it is a godd idea to think we don't know anything and in that case you must think you are a beguinner. For this it is a godd idea to read what Iczellion made.

Once you are not a beuinner, you read the MSDN, you take a look at AgnerFog work...

But are they perfect too ?

For me, if I did not found Iczellion's tutorials I think that asm language would have been very difficult under Windows.

I began with Petzold too, they make me discover an other world. When I wrote my first program under Windows 'Internet' did not exist, we were some programmers using messages boards but time spent was very expensive. It was difficult to find good examples, so Petzold wrote some interesting books, Norton too and later I met Iczellion's tuts.

How many programmers began with their help ?

You were pleased to begin with them, don't change your mind.
Posted on 2008-09-27 09:15:45 by Grincheux