:shock:
Sun 'releases' Java to the world
Computer giant Sun Microsystems says it will offer programming language Java to the open source community.
Java is used in more than 3.8 billion mobile phones, computers and other devices around the world.

The decision to release the code under an open licence means the world can now use, develop and share Java for free.

The same type of licence also covers the distribution of the core, or kernel, of the open source operating system Linux.

'More capability'

Rich Green, Sun's executive vice president of software, said the company hoped to turn more developers into Java programmers.

"The open sourcing of this really means more: more richness of offerings, more capability, more applications that consumers will get to use," Mr Green said.

"The platform itself will become a place for innovation."

Open source software has become a major force in the digital world - with the majority of web servers globally using Apache, an open source operating system, many businesses using Linux on their machines and a growing library of open source projects available free to use.

All the Java source code is expected to be released by March 2007, Mr Green said.

The decision covers all Java technology, including software that runs on handheld devices, personal computers and servers.

Analysts have said the decision would likely extend the life of Java, which was released more than a decade ago, and boost business for the company.

"Sun profits from the Java ecosystem thriving," Michael Cote, an analyst with RedMonk told the Associated Press.

"Whether it's their hardware sales or their service sales, by open-sourcing Java they're hoping to ensure its longer life and ensure it's what the community wants it to be."



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6144748.stm

Posted on 2006-11-14 05:27:33 by eek
Sounds like somebody's scared of dotNET...
Posted on 2006-11-14 08:46:03 by f0dder

Sounds like somebody's scared of dotNET...

Who cares :D - this means end of the days of bloated JVMs... hopefully.
Posted on 2006-11-14 09:04:13 by Ultrano


Sounds like somebody's scared of dotNET...

Who cares :D - this means end of the days of bloated JVMs... hopefully.


Hardly - if anybody makes a decent JVM, they'll probably have an antitrust case on their necks. Or was that just because it was MS that made a decent JVM? *grin*
Posted on 2006-11-14 09:37:17 by f0dder
That's a smart move.
Java doesn't bring any considerable profit for Sun, but they still need to spend a lot on maintaining, bug fixing, etc. By making it open source they relieve themselves from a lot of headache and also improve their image in the open-source market.


this means end of the days of bloated JVMs...

Why?
Posted on 2006-11-14 09:57:24 by arafel
I assume people would try to fix-up things Java is notorious with.
Posted on 2006-11-14 10:51:21 by Ultrano
ah, sorry. I thought you meant by 'end of the days' a complete end of JVM.
never mind then  :)
Posted on 2006-11-14 11:22:01 by arafel
What Sun didn?t think about when making such decision is that most Java programmers are so illiterate they wouldn?t probably even know the meaning of open-source and what they should possibly do with it lol.
Posted on 2006-11-14 12:22:32 by XCHG
Huh?  Probably half the web is code with Java.  In my town, if you don't know Java you don't know ****.
Posted on 2006-11-14 14:24:34 by drhowarddrfine

What Sun didn?t think about when making such decision is that most Java programmers are so illiterate they wouldn?t probably even know the meaning of open-source and what they should possibly do with it lol.


That's a pretty harsh statement.

Many universities are doing their programming teaching with JAVA now (which isn't a bad thing, IMHO - focus on the important comp.sci. aspects, instead of working around the quirks of C/C++). That does mean that there's a lot of "n00b" JAVA programmers - but there's a lot of good ones as well.
Posted on 2006-11-14 16:43:09 by f0dder
I probably couldn't deliver the statement the way I had it in mind. What I was trying to say is that Java, due to its nature, tends to hide a lot of implementations and what is going on in the background from the user, making the user close his eyes and start programming. I think the farther you get from the operating system, the less you'd be keen to understand what is really happening at the lower level. No way to recover huh?
Posted on 2006-11-14 23:30:55 by XCHG
Many universities are doing their programming teaching with JAVA now (which isn't a bad thing, IMHO - focus on the important comp.sci. aspects, instead of working around the quirks of C/C++). That does mean that there's a lot of "n00b" JAVA programmers - but there's a lot of good ones as well.

Come on f0dder, understanding how memory in a computer works and pointers and all this stuff is not "quirks of C/C++", it is real programming, and is common also to assembly, our beloved language.

I have to say I was very negatively impressed of a friend of mine that I thought had true potential: he just got his degree in Computer Science, they taught him only Java, besides a very brief C pause to talk about the sockets interface. Well, I must say that most of the talent I saw in him is now compromised. He, having a degree now (one of those 3 years degrees we have in Italy since some years but, you know, still a degree), was asked by a company to write a microcontroller application, and they offered him some decent money as well. They didn't ask me to do it, although I could do it without blinking an eye, because I have no degree (actually I didn't even bother to finish high school), and they looked at my curriculum vitae www.omega64.com/cv/fb/en.html (I may think the real reason may have been they thought I was too much qualified, and thus I would have asked more money. Why pay more, when you got somebody "freshly degreed" that will do the work (possibly better, he's got a degree!) and, being new his first jobs, will not have to be paid a lot.
Well, my friend couldn't program the microcontroller in assembly. He couldn't program it in C. He couldn't program it in C++. Should he program it in Java?

Finally I convinced him to take some lessons of real programming.. but with all that shitload of garbage collection ideas he's got in his mind now, I think we'll have to restart from scratch.
Posted on 2006-11-14 23:40:24 by Maverick

Come on f0dder, understanding how memory in a computer works and pointers and all this stuff is not "quirks of C/C++", it is real programming, and is common also to assembly, our beloved language.


Ah, but you've misunderstood me then. Pointers, memory, registers, et cetera are still IMHO important to learn about if you want to be a decent programmer. I just don't think starting with C/C++ is a particularly good idea - it's too easy for a newbie to shoot himself in the foot with those languages. Also, libc is known to require a lot of work to make safe against exploits... if you start with C/C++ you'll get into bad habits of unsafe programming.

IMHO it's better to teach fundamental comp.sci. with JAVA, since - well - it's safe, and it has a rich standard library. You can have a feeling of "getting things done" early on, and then you can move to implementing your own data structures (remember how a null pointer bug in C could BSOD a win9x machine, btw? ;)).

Perhaps Danish universities and engineering schools are just better than other places. Or perhaps the people I know have just been sensible enough to pick good courses, I dunno. But once the initial JAVA stuff is done, computer architecture (including assembly for at least one platform) should be taught, along with some C/C++. Exposure to at least a couple of other languages is a must too, IMHO.

It's not JAVA's fault that your friend attended a bad comp.sci. course :)
Posted on 2006-11-15 02:22:21 by f0dder

The problem IMO is the trend (at least here) to teach ONLY Java. I think we all started with BASIC and that didn't do too harm anyway, so I'm not saying that the problem is that they start by teaching Java, at all, but that they END as well. ;)
And this definitely happens, at least in our universities. Maybe it will be everywhere like this, sooner or later. But this means that the quality of programmers, which is already quite low, will be lowered even more.

Anyway, who cares. ;)
Posted on 2006-11-15 02:53:39 by Maverick
Obviously, some of us DO care, or else we would hang our hats in shame and pretend our scribble is an artform.

Posted on 2006-11-15 07:27:20 by Homer


Obviously, some of us DO care, or else we would hang our hats in shame and pretend our scribble is an artform.


I mean, we ain't gonna change the world, it has a too big inertia. ;)
Posted on 2006-11-15 09:28:55 by Maverick



Obviously, some of us DO care, or else we would hang our hats in shame and pretend our scribble is an artform.


I mean, we ain't gonna change the world, it has a too big inertia. ;)



Could we design a lever that is big enough to achieve such a goal???

Seriously though, I agree with f0dder. Java would be a perfect language for newbies to dip into the programming pool, as with a swimming pool for children (kiddie pool). It is easier to learn something right the first time (Java as a base, work down towards C and ASM), than to *unlearn* something and learn it properly.

However, leaving them in the "kiddie pool" and not forcing them to experience "deeper waters", like *just* teaching Java, will not get them far. When it is time to sink or swim (as with the story of Maverick's friend)... well... I think we know the answer to that one already.
Posted on 2006-11-15 14:12:16 by SpooK
I am sorry for being sooo illiterate and sooo newbie, doing something crazy as use a 2937px x 1695px 32bit texture and slow it down with lightfx
http://web.telia.com/~u45113685/wrapper.html


just because I am sooo stupid to use such a language, just because I wanted all people on the web to see what I could do
Posted on 2006-11-15 16:33:02 by daydreamer
daydreamer: that's pretty cute, but slooow - I'm sure it could be written a good deal faster with native code, whether that be C/C++/Asm :) (the real problem being, of course, that the current JVM sucks. Would be interesting to know what speed Microsoft's JVM would give...)
Posted on 2006-11-15 16:44:52 by f0dder
Runs at 6fps here. Nice, though you don't perform bilinear filtering :P , and I can't understand the lighting effect ^^" .

Meanwhile I'm also swimming in the Java pool. After having a dip for a few hours months ago to port parts of my first PalmOS game :)  [ keys are A/S/D/W  and J/K ]
Yet, I don't have a java-enabled phone, due to the fact I hate phones...
Posted on 2006-11-15 18:30:15 by Ultrano