What's most important to you in an IDEa RAD window designerIntellisense like abilitiestext-coloring & highlightingSpeed. To Redmond with the rest Any remarks, clarifications or points not covered: post them in this thread.
Posted on 2001-02-16 08:18:00 by Hiroshimator
I'd like the ability to jump between labels (excuse the pun)! It can be a real pain if your code is long scrolling up and down to try and find the next one! Mirno
Posted on 2001-02-16 09:21:00 by Mirno
With a ranking of 1 to 10, 10 being the highest. RAD = 10 Tools = 9 Syntax highlighting = 8 Speed = 5 Intellisense capability = 3 Ewayne
Posted on 2001-02-16 09:36:00 by Ewayne
Uhm.. I didn't vote yet as I'm note sure about it: Could someone explain me what : - a RAD text editor is. ie: point me to an example text editor - intellisense like abilities are. TIA, JimmyClif (&& have a good weekend) ps: I don't believe that an editor can be slower than me coding... so speed is not an issue for me *g*
Posted on 2001-02-16 09:59:00 by JimmyClif
RAD is the "resource workshop & skeleton" in one! Like VB, Delphi, or C++ Builder... Draw a button, click on that button, enter code saying what you want to happen when that button is (clicked/dragged over/double clicked/hit with a big stick/danced upon by an overweight bear/sacrificed to Bill/put in a rocket and sent to Mars) Basically certain code is autogenerated based on what you do in the resource editor part! Mirno P.S. Not all of the options are true (at least for current RADs), you may consider writing one which does deal with these cases! :P
Posted on 2001-02-16 10:16:00 by Mirno
I just want the IDE to be an enhanced notepad with following functions:
  • 1) Open files larger than 64k
  • 2) Let me choose a fixed pitch font
  • 3) Tab every 4 characters(soft tab)
  • 4) it won't select the cr/lf when i select the whole line like wordpad
  • ;)
    Posted on 2001-02-16 10:23:00 by RVA
    It will be a long time before I'll be able to give up UltraEdit. It has everything I need: customizable syntax highlighting, and I can configure it to detect any labels etc. I made it such that it has a list of procedures on the right side, so I can jump easily between procs. A long time will pass before I'll see an ASM IDE that will be as customizable as UltraEdit.
    Posted on 2001-02-16 11:13:00 by Hel
    1) Workspace capability, IE, able to manage multiple Project groups. Projects exist separately from Workspaces (IE, a Project is it's own entity, may be loaded or deleted to a Workspace and still remain the whole). (see VB6) 2) New Projects/Workspaces to be defined with a walk-through wizard that sets most/all options, such as folder creation, dummy .asm/.inc/.rc files with stub or header code, TESTRUN button for the eventual .exe 3) Damn fast text editor way over syntax highlighting (most implementations of highlighting I've seen lag the scroll wheel) 4) Some sort of clever way to maneuver through a file, such as a drop down boxes with PROC and JMP LABELs (maybe vars too) 5) incremental build handled by the editor, i.e., it serves the same function of nmake.exe. Give it a build rule for each filetype (or custom to each file), and if build product is older then the target, build step is skipped. Override for this too. 6) Build results pipe to the IDE display, and may be clicked to find the offending line (see MSVC) 7) User customizable menus for macro and aux file running. Plug-in interface a huge plus too. Heck, make the whole .exe an automation server so macros can be done in VB instead of the built-in VBscript or Jscript engines. 8) Any "Visual" code generator is a low priority, as these may be created in other apps and imported. IE, it's hard to beat the VB form editor (VB forms may be imported to VC and translated to .rc files). PaintShopPro is a far better bitmap editor then I ever care to code. These tools can be re-used. (Am I asking too much?)
    Posted on 2001-02-16 11:17:00 by Ernie
    Have you ever coded in VB? Langauge sucks, editor rocks (jump between subs (procs), function prototypes as-you-type etc. This would help a lot, I wouldn't have to start MSDN everytime I need the CreateFile proto...
    Posted on 2001-02-16 12:06:00 by Qweerdy
    Thanks Mirno for the answer :) But thinking about it: Would RAD not be the complete opposite of what win32asm is about? (Don't get me wrong I don't want to start a huge conversation here) But wouldn't an editor creating my button/window/whole proggy and all the rest by a nice insert menu (except what happens when I have an idea by myself) not be like the start of all other HLL? Someone does a cool function to simplify my life and no one would care anymore how it got written at all - after all it's bug-free then with multiple calls to functions to ensure the portability and such? I dunno.. maybe I just got it wrong :rolleyes: What's Intellisense? JimmyClif (I like highlighting ;) Notepad is a NoNo :cool: )
    Posted on 2001-02-16 15:44:00 by JimmyClif
    It seems that nearly everybody already has their own editor of choice, so for me RAD is important as I don't really want to be doing too much house keeping. I prefer to get on with algoritm development and coding the more interesting bits. Maybe an add-on for UltraEdit like what CodeFumbler did with MASM Assmbler/linker is to considered. I kinda like intellisense as it correct my spelling mistakes as I go. (occocationally I maintain a MS office setup coded in VB). However in the embedded appl I do I don't think it would be of any help at all. Syntax highlighting is most useful and is really a standard anyway. That my 2 bob worth, keep coding. Cheers fiddler
    Posted on 2001-02-16 15:52:00 by fiddler
    I think Intellisense(tm) would be much more productive to the majority of people. RAD would only appeal to some people. Most likely not VxD developer, Virus Writers, Reverse Engineers, Plumbing Programmers, Network Programmers and the like. Of course, who does that leave? The people who would be more likely to benefit are: VB Users, Delphi Users, Application Programmers, most likely in the realm of productivity or development tools... and hobbyists... and me. I'm speaking from a marketing perspective. Intellisense and Project Browsing/Management is much more appealing. Mechanisms for templates and such are a boost. I find RAD appealing. I find assembly appealing. I find intellisense appealing. I find NotePad appealing because it really can used for anything, manual labor not included. The problem with RAD is that it takes away the need to know exactly what you're doing. You don't have to know why, not how. Just that it works. Regardless, I find RAD appealing and I still know why and how. _Shawn
    Posted on 2001-02-16 16:12:00 by _Shawn
    I find TheGun/Notepad appealing too, but I already have those. True RAD and Intellisense is what I haven't got. So that's what I need.
    Posted on 2001-02-18 06:38:00 by Hiroshimator
    RAD used to mean RAPID APPLICATION DEVELOPMENT, not what the VB, Delphi front end generators currently do, RAPID FRONT END DEVELOPMENT. This distinction is worth taking note of, many modern RAD packages are distinctly back end toothless or unfriendly. I have no objection to interface drawing tools if you are building dialog style applications but outside of that, they are no real advantage over code generators and a lot slower to use. I have another problem with the notion of an IDE and it comes from a very abstract piece of mathematics research back in the 1930's. A young German mathematician called Curt Godel proved what is now called the indeterminacy of mathematics. It was based on Bertrand Russell and Alfred North Whitehead's work called Principia Mathematica which produced the first extensional proof for a system of logic. Godel proved that for any given set of axioms, you can derive a finite set of rules from them but that there is always more information within the same category that cannot be derived from the axioms. This has inplications for any axiomatic system, put something in a set of rules and you restrict it, the less rules you have, the more you can do in any given category. Applying this to the notion of an IDE says a closed system is more restrictive and less powerful than an open system where you chose what you want in terms of an editor, assembler/compiler, resource editor and compiler, code generators, extra tools etc... With an open system, you can change bits of it as you require where a close system restricts you to what it can do as it is. Writing assembler is a pursuit related to having FULL control of what and how you write code. Put it in a closed system and you will turn it to garbage, put it in a well set up OPEN system and you can work at any number of tricks to write code more quickly. Libraries are one of the very powerful ways of increasing throughput, code generators take a lot of the hack work out of generating front ends and program components. As for my order of preference for an editor on a 1 to 10 scale, 10. Speed 9. Size 8. Load time 7. Configurability 6. Capacity 5. Extendability 4. Facilities 3. Fixed pitch font 2. Convenient interface layout 1. Drag & Drop 0. Syntax colouring (gives me eyestrain) -1. Intellisense (learn to spell) -2. Any other nonsense idea Regards, hutch@pbq.com.au
    Posted on 2001-02-18 07:38:00 by hutch--
    Having seen other posts on "Intellisense" I've revised my opinion on it, as I've finally seen the benefit (and going back and playing inside VB confirmed this for me). I was first concerned with one of my own frequent "typing stoppers" (those things you have to stop and look up, instead of free-flowing code typing)... that being any register cast for structure reference. In masm, these look like this (in my useage): mov eax, (StructureName PTR ).ElementName Well, OK, actually seeing this in print gives me a few ideas how a thread could be spawned at the "." to look up the elements in StructureName to fill in ElementName. I've usualy got my own defined structs open in a file somewhere on my desktop so I get these correct the first time (and MSVC open to use it's Find in Files to get the rest). VB is most excellent at this all by itself. However, when it comes to simple API calls, I've swung around to thinking how vital Intellisense would be, as presently I don't think I've ever written a single code line containing an API call that didn't involve a round trip lookup inside my MSDN CD. Wouldn't it be so much faster if after I type "SetWindowPos" I get that cute yellow box telling me: HWND hWnd, HWND hWndInsertAfter, int X, int Y, int cx, int cy, UINT uFlags And when I get to the 6th comma, I get a nice drop down box holding: SWP_ASYNCWINDOWPOS SWP_DEFERERASE SWP_DRAWFRAME ... and so on. If I could get these benifits I just might be willing to wait for my system to stop thrashing as it loads some huge MS bloatware apps to do the data base stuff to support this. ... or let some clever guy code a btree.dll we all re-use :-)
    Posted on 2001-02-18 10:39:00 by Ernie
    yep that's what I want to. Hutch-- Open vs Closed (Betov will love to hear you say that, at last you share some of his ideas) :) All said in good spirit
    Posted on 2001-02-18 12:17:00 by Hiroshimator
    I dont know if this has been said, but i would like a visual resource editor. One thats kinda like Visual C++'s, but thats compatible with MASM.
    Posted on 2001-02-18 13:17:00 by HeroInc
    And nobody is saying of advance help functions and asm specific task. I'm just too dumb to figure out what kind of task do you need ASM IDE for. To Steve: nice speach. The Svin.
    Posted on 2001-02-18 17:56:00 by The Svin
    Notepad has RAD built in! Its called copy & paste :D Are we all so stupid that we can't think: "Hmmm I've done this before, so I'll re-use that code!" -Open file- -Copy code- -Paste code- -Minor changes to suit what we're doing now- And you're done! If you've not done it before (and so can't copy), then maybe learning how to do it would be better? I've met too many people who want an easy way of programming, and in general none of them had a clue of what was going on under the bonnet... I kind of hoped that the Win32asm phenomenon was a back-lash against lazy programming, but from the whole RAD discussion it seems we just want to be lazy in a different language :( The futures bleak people :( Mirno
    Posted on 2001-02-19 06:28:00 by Mirno
    Mirno, I don't want to be lazy - I just know that there is a lot of processing power sitting here that could be used to bring a great deal of information to me about the code and environment I'm programming in. bitRAKE
    Posted on 2001-02-19 06:56:00 by bitRAKE