Hi what happends to you and the team ? aftert the good start i hear nothing from you again. possible thats why i wrote you that i code a trojan horse. please read this artikel from me : http://www.megasecurity.org/~masterrat/Info/Interview_why.html and you understand why i do so.... im not a child ,im 28. also i would be happy,if you dont like that i make your 3d movies that you told me this. not answering is not the thing i think from you and your team. have a nice day. ps:sorry for posting this here ,i try to send emails the last days and get no response,but i like to know what happends.
Posted on 2001-03-08 04:10:00 by WH¥
Personally, after reading your little Trojan discours I'd have no problem with you never posting here again. 28 years old and still behaving like a kid that values 'l33tn3ss' over common sense. Lots of good folks' PCs get hosed and violated because of applications like yours. I do understand the compelling knowledge comprised in particular forms of software such as virii, trojans and the likes... but making a virus/trojan is one thing, releasing it is another. It means going from being an academic scholar to a careless destroyer. No matter what kind of excuse you use, violating (usually) non-suspecting, innocent victims PCs is just lame (not to mention the trouble it can get you in). This is just my opinion. Everyone feel free to respond. WH¥ feel free to come and go as you like. But know that I (and maybe others) lost my respect for you now. I have seen too many good folks' data tampered with or destroyed because of these stupid things and it makes me sad that the art of programming gets abused for this purpose.
Posted on 2001-03-08 19:17:00 by Hiroshimator
Hi ok ,i understand it. please delete my account here. i dont want to make this board looking illegal or so. i try what i try to do ,because i dont know what i can do and i like to help. i hope others see that im not one of those who play whit other people pcs. but its ok and i understand your statement. thanks for the help you give me here and much luck in the future. cu ps:im happy if some one post a better way for stoping child porn.
Posted on 2001-03-09 01:39:00 by WH¥
WH¥, you're free to stay here. Never mind me here, I'm just saying my opinion, not that one of the board. It would be silly to quit this board because someone on it disagrees with you. So I'm not deleting any account here. (forget that I'm an admin, this is my opinion as a person nothing more, nothing less) I find the fact that you release your trojans very bad. If it were only you wanting to stop the child-pornography, then you didn't have to make it publicly available nor didn't you have to place 'come test the new beta' on multiple related messageboards. It's desire for attention isn't it? the same desire for attention that makes you agree to an interview, the same that you accuse the others of having. Well anyway now you know my personal point of view on trojans: I don't like them. They ruin to many people's day or more. I've seen it happen a lot already. They prey on the innocence of non-computer savvy users and exploit their greatest weaknesses: trust and Ignorance. Yes, they should learn to be more wary, but in that case a 1 time messagebox could suffice, not a 'I steal everything and ruin your PC' application.
Posted on 2001-03-09 01:58:00 by Hiroshimator
Dear Hiroshimator, you cant understand how i feel now. when i read your posting ,i get shocked. i post the link here to show bogdan that im not the one who makes trouble. i NEVER released a working TROJAN ! i release a beta ,the server is VISIBLE ,big dialogbox! i often say that i dont like sub7 and dont want to become mobman2. also when i found out some firewall bugs...i mail to mcafee and the cleaner. mcafee dont response and the cleaner team program a new tool : the cleaner monitor also i send this to bugtraq,because my english is bad...there is today no entry. i post in a security board and warn them...they told me stupid and that i smoke to much weed.........but they dont understand the danger in what i say. ok,i publish the source code you can say. but i made errors inside so no lamer can compile it and use it. its only for coders to see how i make this and that. like i learn from other sources. also i dont like to be a 31337 coder or the hero for some trojan users. i understand your statement ,because you only know this text from me. i had some months ago a big open source page for trojan ,remote administration tools coders. i never answer a question on how to infect people. i never help someone to play whit others. i like to give a base for new coders. if you go to other sites as a newbie,you only read that trojans are cool. i like to show that there are more ways to use remote functions than to play on others. im not shure if you know the microwave who has a touchscreen and internet acess ,or the refrigenerator who shop on internet it milk is empty or so. thats what i mean....remote tools. pc anywhere..... washmashine controlled by handy.... i code my trojan only for busting child porn traders and not for public fame. thats what i wrote more then one time. most trojan coders hate me when i say this all. thats why im very frustrated at the moment. i like your page and i like to be a asm coder on day. a respektet coder and not one who all say : he is the one who make trouble at the moment i understand nothing. i see only that im the bad man and im unable to show others that im not the bad man. example: when i read the text on hostile encounter,i think cool team and hey make some movies for them. also i spend 3 days ..day and night making a short movie to show the team that i can realy make movies and not try to fool them. its ok when they dont want me in the team ,but for the work i made ,i think its fair to mail me back and say this. i feel like a asshole. sorry ,but i need time to understand this all. im alone and i think my idea is right. the police is unable to fight against child porn,real hackers told me its illegal and now coders told me that my way is also wrong. I CANT CLOSE MY EYES TO THIS PROBLEM and i like to help. i think using a trojan and spying on the trader scene is a good idea. i dont want to format the servers ,i like to get infos about the real persons behind this and give this info to the police. i see no other way to fight against them...... but as i say,i understand you. this is the last asm page ,if this page is closed.....the asm coding is loost. so i leafe and stop asking trojan releated questions. its easy to change my nick and come back,but all the time im in the web i had problems and i never change my nick. im WH¥ ,because i ask to often why in my live. so its better to leafe. thanks a lot for the time you and others spend to help :) do not stop this. cu ps:do not forget that you and others are ,hm how to say...heros for other coders,like me. thats why you code real and not use delphi or vb. you and others know today how things are going,thats hard to find. thats why im here.
Posted on 2001-03-09 03:42:00 by WH¥
the problem is WH¥, that the only trojan that doesn't get used is an unreleased one. All the rest, even intentionally crippled ones will find their way to the hands of those that wish to use them for malevolent purposes. So this makes you, the creator, as responsible as any malevolent virus/trojan creator that releases it's vengeange on this world. Even though your cause maybe sincere, the fact that you've released the trojan and made it available to thousands of people with different intentions then you (I'm not going to judge intentions now) creating lots of problems for their hapless victims.
Posted on 2001-03-09 04:00:00 by Hiroshimator
Also I'd firmly like to ask you to stay. Differences of opinion are what make life interesting. Ich wolte gerne das sie bleiben (spelling is probably woozy but alla ;) ) This message was edited by Hiroshimator, on 3/9/2001 4:11:23 AM
Posted on 2001-03-09 04:02:00 by Hiroshimator
Hi Why We will contact you soon...sorry but we had to do some upgrades to our PC's and stuff...salso reinstalled a lots of Windows stuff so we where offline for a short time... However we also got a lot of thinking on our mind after we found that you are working at a trojan... Sorry We will sure not help you with that! :D And if that is the price for us working together...then we dont! We are still interested in working with you...but we have to clear some things So.. we will talk via email soon...i think :) As soon as our systems are up and running again at 100%
Posted on 2001-03-09 06:45:00 by BogdanOntanu
hi, please let me sail into this discussion :) now i'm on the point where i say: no, trojans are lame and bad and at this time i can not learn anymore from them... but there was a time i played with them myself - just to find out how it works - i wanted to make my own little trojan without any other sources - i just wanted to know if i am good enough to do such things. after i finished work i feld very very happy and wanted everybody to know that i am able to code trojans so i released it - now i read this msg's above and i feel like nothing on earth. but hey, i just wanted to learn i did not thought about things like: some other could take my work and harm people. i mean, this is out of question anyway... there are SO many sources released that one or more from someone who just wanted to show other people the usage of winsock in praxis isn't that bad. i understand why trojans and viruses are bad in generel but i don't understand why you (hiro) don't respect desire of knowledge. i think saying things like "you used to code a "remote administration tool:)" so i don't respect you anymore." is not a good solution... by the way i think most people on this board should be a little more tolerant: let tasm users use tasm and let people who want to learn something more than "comctrl32", gain that knowledge (there were threads closen just because of the word "virus").
Posted on 2001-03-09 06:54:00 by drcmda
Lets not start a Jihad here! Lets leave the politics at the door, and discuss the serious business of code... If you want to write trojans, thats your business, but don't tell me about it (at least not here). Writing trojans is your business, and if you can deal with the pain you cause, fine. A trojan by its very nature is to cause harm, don't forget that. Mirno
Posted on 2001-03-09 07:45:00 by Mirno
read my post and you'll see that i agree with you. but - without trojans i wouldn't be able to work on things like my filesharing engine today. without writing virus-like progs for MYSELF i wouldn't be able to do things like mem-patching. in my last project i should implement a encryption in a videoconference-software for a company ... if i don't know what a delta offset is (or other things that are a MUST in low-level programing) i wouldn't be able to do this. let's stop that here... regards, drcmda.
Posted on 2001-03-09 07:57:00 by drcmda
I respect the pursuit of knowledge, read my above posts again, but I do not support the release of malicious software. difference between scholar or villain. (see above somewhere :D) And yes, hutch closed a virus thread and we all back him up on that, it's the sites' policy. If you can't live with that, sorry then this is not the site for you. Let's get rid of the old adagio that ASM means virii/hacking/whatever else bad it's always associated with most on the internet. Let's show that it is fully functional and fun and that we are responsible persons capable of great things :) This message was edited by Hiroshimator, on 3/9/2001 8:25:36 AM
Posted on 2001-03-09 08:21:00 by Hiroshimator
"I respect the pursuit of knowledge, read my above posts again, but I do not support the release of malicious software." What if somebody released source to a generic, flexible remote-administration utility? That COULD be used to cause harm. Would you call such a thing "malicious software", hiro?
Posted on 2001-03-09 08:27:00 by f0dder
of course not but that's not really the case here isn't it? it's not like there's a consent from both parties with a trojan wouldn't you say? a better phrase would've been software released with malicious intent, because, in se, no software can be malicious. This message was edited by Hiroshimator, on 3/9/2001 8:41:29 AM
Posted on 2001-03-09 08:36:00 by Hiroshimator
Realy there's no borders at all. U say "i don't like trojans" just beacause u are a slave of stereotypes, that are given to u by faceless society. THIS IS A REAL IGNORANCE. Why u have a head? To think or to listen and do how they told u to? It doesn't depends on knowledge or something like this, it depends on that if u are a persoonality or just "one another" face in the crowd. I wrote and released a trojan, yes, I did. And what? And how about cracking? Hacking? Btw, go to www.hackers.com and read there "mentors last words - hackers manifesto". Everyone can do whatever he or she want, and no one - nor me, nor u has a right to tell people what is righ and what is right, if u wana teach - go and theach ur children, teach ur self. Realy it's me, Alex_SS sayin this! I'm THAT Alex_SS, remember me! ----------------------------------------- Noble warriors stay silent!
Posted on 2001-03-09 17:44:00 by Alex_SS (DLnC is my temporary nick used for this f
I don't give a damn who you are. No one has the right to do what he wants, there will always be limits. I can't just shoot you can I :rolleyes: ? Freedom is a utopia since mankind still isn't able to live in peace. BTW being different might make you exactly like those other 'differents'. In the end you're only a member of a different crowd :P
Posted on 2001-03-09 21:44:00 by Hiroshimator
I don't know what country some of you are from, But I come from the most free country in the world, and there is still limits, limits that come from within, that tell you what is right and what is wrong. Example, A knife is used for cutting your food, it is sharp this you know, so you use it to cut your food up. so knowing this, would you give it to your kids? kids you know are to young yet, to know that they can get cut by it? same with a trojan, you don't know what one person would do with it. and by saying that you don't care what they do with it, is not a way to get out of the fact that you wrote it and if it is used to hurt someone then it is your CODE that hurt someone. I can say my code has never hurt anyone. But those of you that have made trojans and released them, can not say this, so now should come into play is your guilt, <---- this is what should couse your limits. guilt should tell you what is wrong and right.
Posted on 2001-03-09 22:22:00 by Zcoder
What I find most interesting are these characters who complain the most about "freedom" and "open source" and "virii for knowedge" are also the ones who've contributed the LEAST in terms of assistance and adding to every one's knowedge. Hiding behind a sheild of kiddie porn ("I'm not the bad man, they are!") is just a dumb trick. I doubt anyone with a third a brain would fall for it. In the end, they curse the faceless crowds and their vacant smiles because secretly they desire to be normal, to have someone accept them. To be a part of the crowd they feel so distant from. It's kinda sad the lengths they go to just to get a bit of attention. But it's not my problem.
Posted on 2001-03-09 22:51:00 by Ernie
Hi i say it again : i never released a trojan for public use. what others thing of me is not from interrest for me. im german and in my land the police is unable to do something against child porn. some days ago a 12 year old girl get hijacked and ......... ! its nice to say : its not my problem or to say: the ones who fight against child porn are making tricks. you dont know me,so why do you mean im the one who fool others and wrote a big story about fighting back. i do in this year more then others here in 10 years. i dont like to see my own daughter some time nacked in the web ! the web is full with textfiles from me where i say what i think from trojan users and the trojanic scene. also i often say that i fight back. its my right and im proud of what i do. the only thing i ask you ,is that you acept that im not the one who fool others. also im new ,so if my ideas are not right ,show me a better way stoping this shit business. only writting thats bad what i do ,is false i think. show me a better way and i mean not that i have to stop this. also here is not the place to write down what i have done the last year. but you can thrust me,i report a lot people to my local police. to bogdan: no, the deal is not that you write me a trojan and i make movies... for me the deal was : i make movies and you help me LEARNING coding. i wrote you only that i wrote a trojan ,to say you directly the thrue about me and my interrests. i dont like to make you movies and later you hear i code a trojan ,so i say this directly. thats all and im happy to hear that you also have no problem :) next i like to excuse me for the trouble i make by posting here. sorry ,i dont want to make trouble here. you have right ,different meanings are what life makes interresting. i hope im not out to all here and some one respect what i like to do. im shure if you know me a longer time,you see that i speak the thrue,in very bad english :) happy coding
Posted on 2001-03-10 04:36:00 by WH¥
================================= I can't just shoot you can I ? ================================= Of course u can, just come and shoot. Who cares about life? Death is the way to new meaning. And about free countries. Can't u understand, that there's no free countries at all! Every country has a government, government rules the country, if it is so, then there's some organised society, organisation means limits, limits - no freedom. Freedom is "no limits" - that simple. So there's no free countries at all, and more that that: using word "free" with a word "country" is a nonsence. To unedrstand it (if u don't) u must get older. The life meaning is getting out of any crowds. I'm out. Noone rules my life, noone decides for me and noone limits me. I'm a different man. I'm not worried about any crimes in this puny world, about any horrors and so on. If smb kills me - then it is how it should be. Killing me is not deciding for me, limiting me or ruling my life, killing me is in YOUR life, not mine. ---------------------------------------- PPP = Phylosophy, psychology, phylology.
Posted on 2001-03-10 05:38:00 by Alex_SS