I would like to know what people here think about some tut's that are visual? What I mean is the tut's show visualy with sound showing and telling you all about what you need to know ect. all brokeup into tut's so you don't have to always read. We have started such a thing and will be putting out the first one soon, so we can see if this would help also. we plan to take these tut's all the way to even very advanced ASM programming.. I would like to know what everyone here thinks about such a thing....
Posted on 2001-03-25 11:08:00 by Zcoder
A Visual tutorial? Like multimedia? Well... reminds me of a true story. When I went to see "Juassic Park," I had one comment: "Nice movie, but the book had better special efects." Sure, I couldn't expect the hundreds written into the book, as words are cheaper then CGI. My point is, the vision of what your code does must be in your own MIND, not on a computer screen. As my EE102 prof oft said, "It's gotta be in your bloodstream." Multimedia is a tool. All tools have their place and purpose. I'd actually probably enjoy watching your production. I'm just not sure it's a general help thing. But I wasn't raised on 5 second MTV image bytes. ------------------------- "I saw this in a movie about a bus that had to speed around a city, keeping its speed over fifty, and if it's speed dropped, it would explode! I think it was called "The bus that couldn't slow down."
Posted on 2001-03-25 12:08:00 by Ernie
Well Ernie, I Understand what you are saying, I just wanted to try and make some of ASM easier for begginers, by maybe visualy showing some Consepts in a more visual way, some things in ASM to a begginer can be hard to grasp by reading, cuz like you said, it is in the mind on how you see it. But, it could brake the ice a little faster, to see some consept in a visual way.. Visual tut's are not, and can not replace actual hands on ect. but could impove relaying consepts in a more visual way. One example I can think of, is trying to show how the bytes or bits in an AND, or an OR, or XOR operation compine to make the resulting output in the byte. visualy seeing it could make a faster way of grasping it, allowing them to move on quicker, that is if the tut is made right...
Posted on 2001-03-25 12:37:00 by Zcoder
zcoder... if you make the tutorials ill definetly be using them. one thing i noticed about the asm community is that it seems the more knowledgeable people never look forward to change. this doesnt not apply to all, but its just a simple observation. although when someone needs help this is definetly the place to be. it would just be nice to have more and more resources to learn asm. ill be looking forward to the tutorials smurf
Posted on 2001-03-25 12:46:00 by smurf
Man!! Why did you not come up one to two years earlier? :P I think it is really hard to imagine some things in ASM like the register push/pop and, as you said, the bitwise techniques or the differences between word, dword, byte, bit, realXX, nibbles, whatsoever I think it would be of some help for beginners! Stefan
Posted on 2001-03-25 14:43:00 by Stefan Krause
I'd go in favor of written tutorials since they have less of a language barrier to conquer usually. I don't really have problems with most peoples' English but some are hard. Those Aussies :D sorry hutch ;) A written tutorial can be read at ones own pace and can be put aside to look for a dictionary or you can re-read a sentence etc... The language problem still is not something to neglect :( This message was edited by Hiroshimator, on 3/25/2001 4:16:54 PM
Posted on 2001-03-25 15:15:00 by Hiroshimator
Zcoder, I think your suggestion is a great idea, there are many people who do not automatically fit into the older text file format of tutorial who would benefit from a well set out visual tutorial. Sound may be a problem depending on the languages used but most read English reasonably well so there is a lot of room to create a good tutorial that will be very useful to programmers who are starting to learn asm. Regards, hutch@pbq.com.au
Posted on 2001-03-25 18:07:00 by hutch--
I think a visual way of explaining things would surely help for some things. I once used a multimedia demo from intel about mmx, it was really helpfull, it showed visually what really happens. I will consider your idea with my next tutorials. Thomas
Posted on 2001-03-26 05:57:00 by Thomas
Visual is good... that's why the Dummies series is so popular, because there are lots of visual for people to see... people like to see illustrations of particular concepts in practice where possible. For example, it's harder to get the point of a stack and queue across unless they can see a small graphical representation of the same. In the business world, it's not different. Experts or not, could look at financial info all they want, but its not going to sink in unless they see it in a cute little chart. Then, all they care about is that the line is goin upward, not downward -- and everyone knows their investment is returning on them... asm programming is no different. then we can graphically see something, then say, "oh, how cute, look at that little '0x3FF0A0B2' move from into ECX and get XOR'd into EAX and then SHL'd twice and then AND'd with EBX and then TESTed with something and completely neglected because the JNE failed..." :D Thanks, _Shawn ;) This message was edited by _Shawn, on 3/26/2001 11:53:41 AM
Posted on 2001-03-26 10:51:00 by _Shawn
Here's an attempt to create such a tutorial, it isn't much and not interesting for most of us, but to get the idea... view here (no animations either but can all be done). Thomas
Posted on 2001-03-26 13:18:00 by Thomas
Thomas, I like the "circles & arrows" approach as it's more along the way I think about code... any code. As others in the thread said, some people are more visual in their thinking & some more verbal, might as well try & reach them both ways. Also as I'm 190% convinced that assembler is THE language (for many reasons), I think a little evangelizing may not be a bad thing too... for those who might be scared off by all the talk of how hard asm is and then have it confirmed by not getting the big (or is that small?) picture... maybe some demos would bring them around. There are some pretty smart people coding in VB or (gag) VC++ they can often get things done more efficiently in asm. I not just talking about small fast code but freedom of expression too... just try & do bit shifts or rotates in VB... Not every one will agree on that but their Programming Gods are false ;) Anyway... back to earth... maybe you'd want to tie it closely to the Icz tutes. They're a great place to start. Helping me lots with getting to know what windows is up to. rafe
Posted on 2001-03-26 14:22:00 by rafe
That tutorial really is good, it explains very fast and good,too bad that its just 0.001% of all the things you have to know:)Better than our teacher that just gave us OP codes and some diagrams of how some algorithm works.Most people didnt know shit about it(this was in first month in the first semester at our University)...bullshit learning, its scares me that people doesnt know a shit if you ask them now about computers(2 years later)...forget, just keep up the good work:)
Posted on 2001-03-26 17:05:00 by Geecko
I like it. It's not cluttered with any garbage and is straight to the point. Keep up the great work. :)
Posted on 2001-03-26 17:40:00 by rainbird
hmmm...um I think having a visual tutorial on assembly is good. I think it will help beginners to get a slice of what asm is. But it always depends on the person's ability to understand but don't get me wrong, im not putting any beginner feel bad. Like me, I too was a beginner, I didnt understand what those registers: eax, ebx ... ah, al ... cs, ss. .. are for. I force myself to understand those through imagination( e.g. : EAX is a molecule with ax, ah, al as atoms of EAX ) pretty weird huh? Yep, I think it would be a good thing... Flash animation is a better way of presenting it.
Posted on 2001-03-26 17:41:00 by umberg6007
Here is a link that has some Java animations for structures and algorithms. It certainly makes learning easier for me. Many of those ideas require a picture to understand clearly, and the same goes for x86 assembly and windows. bitRAKE
Posted on 2001-03-26 17:49:00 by bitRAKE