Im looking for a book on win32 asm programming, but couldnt find any. The best i could find was... Its in C and i understand C (and asm) very well. Would it be a good idea to get that book and put what i learn from it into asm, or get some other book that i dont know about? The main reason i need a book is for the api, thats why i thought id try a book written in an easy language (since i cant find any for asm).
Posted on 2001-03-27 00:36:00 by HeroInc
Well... reading a C book to learn asm is, well, kinda backwards. But hey, if it's all you got..... Going this way, I have a single book to recomend: Petzold's classic "Programming Windows 9x" (I have 95, he's up to 98 now). Classic book that is probably where Icz got his inspiration from. My copy has long ago fallen to shreads. After that is "Programming the Window's 95 user Interface" by Cluts. It's not quite as good as Petzold, but it's free on MSDN. As far as books IN asm for windows, they ain't there. However, if you can read C (not as hard as coding in C), you can use C books to learn from. However, about 96-97, C died as a book language, and everyone went to C++. C++ makes a lousy model for asm.
Posted on 2001-03-27 00:50:00 by Ernie
Well, actually, there are still a lot of C books out there. The more interesting one's are usually MFC or VB emphasized. However, I have not shortage of finding books about win32 threading, networking, MSMQ, API, systems programming, graphics programming, internet programming, security and service programming, and other such programming, in C. Most are, indeed, in C++. If you need some ISBN numbers, let me know. My personal library consists of over 200 books, easily that I've purchased over the last 2 years... some VB, some C++, most recently, C, some Delphi, some Assembler. I'm actually going to catalog each one and provide them as a resource on my website for other people to look into. I only purchase the books that I think will actually teach something, most books, are watered down, or broken into a series of 8 books to get the point across. There aren't, however, any win32 assembly programming books. That's too bad, but it's also to be expected. C is still there, just not nearly as prevailant. Anytime you have true, pure, windows programming, you must have C... since the API itself is written in C (and all header files are C). _Shawn
Posted on 2001-03-27 01:24:00 by _Shawn
Check this link null. You can find there Barry Kauler's book "Windows Assembly Language & System Programming" in pdf format.
Posted on 2001-03-27 05:46:00 by vkim
I own Kauller's book. Bought and paid for. I do not reccomend it, even though it's title implies it's right on target. The book is a confused unclear mixture of 16 bit, 32 bit, MASM, TASM, and whatever else was laying around at the time. Admitadly, Mr Kauler is probably a very skilled programmer. However, this skill does not translate to a book author. His most advanced windows program (developed in 2-3 chapters several times over) is just a simple "Hello World," akin to Icz's tut number TWO. (Aside: I understand Mr K emailed both hutch and Iczelion for assistance in writing his revised edition, ie, they write it, he puts his name on it) I've specifically said C (NOT C++) since most C++ books run right to MFC. MFC wraps the windows API for you, and as an asm programmer you need to drive the API directly. The older C books map quite nicely to asm, you can literally take a C program and "see C, write asm" (I know, I've done that myself a lot). C++ if it avoids MFC might be OK, but I don't know of any books like this. Plus you need some mental model to convert classes to base code (asm by itself lacks those fancy class destructors to free resources). Good C books on windows just are not part of the commercial book market anymore. This isn't completely a bad thing, as I bought Petzold (And Pietrik too) for under 6 bucks total at a 2nd seller. Personally, Art of Assembler (online) never 'did anything' for me, it is an excellent reference, it just doesn't speak my language, so I forget it. A much better source of great info are the MASM manuals. I've read my copy to death. --------------------------------- "Iíve figured out an alternative to giving up my beer. Basically, we become a family of travelling acrobats."
Posted on 2001-03-27 10:07:00 by Ernie
Win32 Programming (Rector & Newcomer/Addison-Wesley) is a valuable reference as well. It's a bit strange though, as the book is "a guide to win32 c programming", but all the source is in c++/mfc (vc++). It mainly serves (for me at least) as a reference for gui programming (window messages, etc). Perhaps the most useful, and most interesting, thing about the book is the accompanying disc though. On it are several "explorers" which are small apps which make the task of conquering/learning about various window messages and control styles less of a pain in the neck. For example, they allow you to change (at run-time) the styles and properties of various common controls and immediately see the changes, as well as see how they respond to various window messages.
Posted on 2001-03-27 11:11:00 by 4oh4
I have that book and all the source seems to be in C... unless you're talking about on the disc (which I haven't looked at before)... I don't by books that discuss MFC since I have no interest in using it. _Shawn
Posted on 2001-03-27 11:52:00 by _Shawn
This is the latest version of the book Shawn. I believe that you're referring to an earlier version. This one has been rewritten with some help by the original author it seems. I was referring to the source on the disc as being mfc. To be honest I've spent much more time examining the source on the disc than the source in the book. I've only read small passages in the book for very specific topics. But from the preface, the author said that the source in the book was written in c, while the disc source was written in c++/mfc. He gave his reasons why this is, but I really don't remember. It seems a bit strange though. Anyways, I have no interest in mfc either. I bought the book for the gui development info. I'm new to win32 asm and sending and responding to messages, and using some of the controls can be a bit tricky. I just wish there was a book of this type written explicitly for win32 asm programming. --4oh4
Posted on 2001-03-27 13:06:00 by 4oh4
Perhpas I'm barking up the wrong tree. Perhaps there isn't even a market for it. However, we could all bond together and write one. My uncle owns a book publishing company, I'm almost positive I can get it published. The only drawback, since he only uses it to publish his own books (so far) is that I have to front the printing costs... which is something of $10k for 40,000 books or something like that. We already had a discussion, he's greatly interested in starting tech books but needs someone to write for him. I started working on one, since he's not investing into the print (on my behalf) I have to front the cash, but once it starts, he agreed that after about 3 or 4 books he'll start fronting the costs. But the plus side, is that I get 50% profit (instead of the traditional 5%). If we all bonded together and chose to write one, we could use the proceeds to help "evangelize" or the costs of a good server, or, who knows, in some way benefit the community (since I'm willing to bet no one would get rich off the book, I don't think there is that big of a market)... of course, if there is, we'd be pleasantly suprised. My delimma is that if we can't even agree on a single file spec format for the many IDE's out there, then how can we agree on a book? Oh well, I'll have a talk again with him, if we can bond together (I'm certainly not going to write it) and write one, if he'd be willing to publish it. Otherwise, everyone is going to wish there was such a book in the future, and probly never will be. Who knows, perhaps the book could also include some Linux GUI programming, as well... then it would catch the attention of far more people. Just a thought. _Shawn
Posted on 2001-03-27 13:24:00 by _Shawn
Well I'll humbly offer my $.02... A book focusing exclusively on win32 asm programming (and perhaps even *nix if it absolutely has to) would be a godsend. That said, I'm not so sure about us all "bonding together" to write it. Think about it for a minute. ...a programming book with source/examples/techniques from different people with different coding styles. Now Icz's tuts were great because the same author, with the same coding style, built up from the most basic application, gradually increasing in complexity. It's nice to see different techniques for accomplishing the same task, but at least for me it'd be awkward to read a book like you suggest. That said, I'll take what I can get. 8n) If there's some way to have several people involved with writing the book, and still maintain some semblance of unified style... But I agree with you. Until someone publishes such a book, we will always be saying "I wish...". --4oh4
Posted on 2001-03-27 14:15:00 by 4oh4
The difference here, is that if we take my Uncle up on this, we don't have a publishing company saying "Nope, not enough market demand to sell 15,000 copies in 3 months... sorry!". The difference here, is that if it's written, he'll publish it, no questions. Of course, did you read my fine print? I personally have to invest into printing the books themselves, which I'm prepared to do. The royalties coming back are 50% (far greater than any traditional publisher)... that money (apart from recovering expense) could go a long way to support some greater resources for the people to learn from (or your pocket)... :D But uniformity is key. There can't be 90 styles. Of course, if a few people were willing, then I'd also be willing to help keep things in order and will personally pay to have the book printed... the money will return (with time)... but I'm not doing it for the money. If the topics were concise enough, it'll be a bargain for any reader. Oh well, I'm not going to write it. But the oppurtunity is there and almost guaranteed to be printed if someone does. I, for one, know that most people won't publish it. He created the company because people wouldn't publish his books, well, he's doing pretty well off... Amazon and B&N online both purchase quantities per week from him... and he's laughing all the way to the bank. He's willing to extend that to me if I can get some books for him to take care of... soon enough, he'll start financing it, once it's proven itself. Any Takers? _Shawn This message was edited by _Shawn, on 3/27/2001 4:15:59 PM
Posted on 2001-03-27 15:15:00 by _Shawn
I think that Win32asm - the book falls directly between two things: Assembler and Windows programming. If you want to learn asm, and you know windows then you read AoA If you want to learn windows and know asm then you read the tutorials, ask questions and you're there. If you want both, you're stuck. This is the resource for win32asm and it has 250+ registered users + probably another few hundred browsers. I'll be nice and say you'll sell 1,000 books on this planet. sorry, I just don't think there is a market for it. Umbongo
Posted on 2001-03-27 15:31:00 by umbongo
I think a Win32 assembler book would be great! :) I like PDF and all but many times, I prefer an actual printed version of an e-book. That said, how about writing a book, starting small, and publish it online first via PDF. Get some feedback and maybe assess to get a printed version going. You could even get pre-orders of the PDF version and see how much interest there is to at least cover the costs. I don't think people will fork over money hoping this book will get published in the future. The costs should be caried by the publisher since the publisher takes a certain risk. I know that the book publisher Optimax is very good in publishing very technical books even if the target market is not very large. But, first, I think a PDF version would be a great start. This way you can see who is actually interested in participating, etc. Just my 2 cents. This message was edited by Thomas Jaeger, on 3/27/2001 5:02:51 PM
Posted on 2001-03-27 16:00:00 by rainbird
With .NET coming out, I think that assembly programming in Windows will slowly become less of a topic... as MS is trying to make their software do everything for you... however, it should be a hot topic with people of other platforms... and 32-bit x86 assembly is a topic I've not seen written about yet... I'm not closed to the idea of a win32 asm programming book... specially for the field of MMX and 3DNow and such optimizations. I sincerely think more than 1,000 books easily would be sold. Probly, somewhere in the range of 5-15k at the most. It all depends on how compelling and how traditionally content lacking it *isn't* that will make it worth the while. Just another assembly book won't sell well. Just another windows programming book won't sell well. A mix of the two won't sell that well, considering VB is easier than ASM. What will make it sell is a few other factors not mentioned above. Perhaps even a recognized author or co-author will go along way, as well. Randy Hyde is the only one so far to take it upon themselves to try a good book or online PDF that I'm aware of (which go beyond traditional tutorials and guides). For that reason alone, I still believe people will always be saying "I wish we had..." and until someone delivers, everyone is only dreaming. _Shawn
Posted on 2001-03-27 16:43:00 by _Shawn
I think a Win32 ASM book would sell pretty well, not even close to a C++ book, but enough to support itself... On the other hand, in this board there are a few guys that know their stuff (Iczelion, hutch, Ernie, Shawn, Svin, et al.). If only some of them would be willing to do a few chapters each, then a book could easily be done. Sure it's not easy to write a book, but I bet they can work something out (maybe in private so we don't get in the way) to make a decent (even very decent) book, wich I would personally buy. PS: In case you're asking why I didn't put my name in the list, well...I don't know my stuff enough to write anything. GogetaSSJ4 :D
Posted on 2001-03-27 21:05:00 by GogetaSSJ4
Self-publishing is definitely the way to go, which is what _Shawn's uncle is doing. I don't know. :rolleyes: I keep thinking of the little books sold in the chess and juggling markets that are staple-bound. Each focuses on a narrow subject and cost more than a 200-page science fiction book. These books don't show up in bookstores. They are sold by the authors or by specialty businesses. (I'm sure they sell, but slowly. You're not going to make a living off these books.) What you don't learn from the books, you learn by practicing with others. These other people might be found at a club or a gathering place. (like this message board, for example :) ) This message was edited by tank, on 3/27/2001 11:42:51 PM
Posted on 2001-03-27 22:41:00 by tank
I don't think for one minute that some of us who can write a book flat out don't want to. In speaking with other people who have published books that I know, from Wrox and Sams, it takes about 8 hours a day for a good 3-6 months for one book to come into print. That's a lot of work and refining and proof reading and refining and proof... I do not know if we all have the time. The problem also with making a book online first, before in print, is that people will always take the free of the two. You make it available online, then people won't buy it in print because it's nothing they haven't already seen. However, in the scheme of things. Covering 32-bit x86 assembly GUI programming would sell perhaps better than win32 assembly programming. I may be wrong. I may be right. I'm willing to work with someone on it. I won't, however, do it myself. I have work, an IDE to complete, research projects, a C-to-asm manual I'm writing (as we speak), another book (for VB of all things)... my plate is full. _Shawn
Posted on 2001-03-28 00:35:00 by _Shawn