After having participated in this MB for ... a year maybe, I just can't stop noticing that the people posting on this MB have a very low self-esteem. For example, recently a message was titled "A really stupid question from an ASM lamer." Just because you're a beginner does not mean you are stupid. When I started on ASM four years ago I was as buffled by the simplest things as some of the people on this message are, but we all learn as time passes. This MB was made for people to ask questions, from the simplest to the most complex. So, I ask you people to stop insulting yourselves. Your questions are NOT stupid. Something similar goes to the people that don't write in English too well. That's not something for which you have to say "excuse my bad English." I think that most people on this MB realize that there is a high number, if not more than 50%, of programmers who don't live in the USA, etc., so it is understandable that if you live in another country your english is not perfect. Just because your message is not in perfect English does not mean that anybody thinks lowly of you. For example, there are quite a number of French people in here who are fine programmers.
Posted on 2001-04-16 22:36:00 by Hel
Has anyone else besides me noticed those French people use a different word for everything???? Just an observation (offered in the highest esteem). -------------------------------------- "Oh my god! Space Aliens! Don’t eat me, I have a wife and kids! Eat them!"
Posted on 2001-04-16 22:59:00 by Ernie
I was born in the USA, and live here and I speak bad English. :) I'm sorry for my bad English, too. Hel, your observation goes without saying, doesn't it? You have to be masocistic to program in assembly and like it. Doesn't that imply low self-esteem? :)
Posted on 2001-04-16 23:10:00 by bitRAKE
hey HEL, first of all, the guy with that stupid message was ME. Well anyways thanks for your understanding, i actually meant that subject more or less as a joke, and I understand the purpose and spirit (yeah i think this MB has a certain spirit) of this MB. But those things don't always imply a low esteem, it's, i believe, just because newbies like me are confronted here with the top society of assembly programmers, and we don't know really know these people. So i see you guys like teachers for me, and when somebody askes questions about the simple basics that you just have to know to code in asm, there might be, lets say some kind of uncertainty to talk about easy stuff like that to people who write developing software, which we use to program. You know what i mean ? That doesn't imply a low esteem at all. To defend myself, i can't say i have a low esteem at all, i'm 17 and i own a web design company, which by the way works pretty well the last 3 years, to my english i have to say that i'm in canada right now as an exchange student, well i might have a slang and make mistakes once in a while, but that's the only way to learn it. Ok, i guess i went a little too far in my explanation but it was worth it, may be it helped some of the users here. Thanks Olli
Posted on 2001-04-16 23:50:00 by Typhoon
I don't have a low self-esteem. I program in assembly because it creates programs that are fast, efficient, and small. Sure it's tough, but I love challenges.
Posted on 2001-04-16 23:52:00 by Hel
Well Typhoon, saying that your question is stupid does make it look as if you have a low self-esteem. Also, I know that was you cause I had just looked at it. I just didn't want to name any people. It seems that you misunderstood me. All I'm trying to say is that you should stop saying your questions are stupid. None of the questions are stupid cause this MB was made for people to learn.
Posted on 2001-04-16 23:57:00 by Hel
k got ya, see i exactly mean the same thing, i just tried to explain you why people sometimes make up those "stupid" subjects, With the "stupid" in my last post i actually meant, now you have to agree :) , that it is stupid from the author of a post to write a line like that. because we both agree that this MB is made to learn, Right ? It just shows me that the author didn't understand the purpose of the whole thing here! If you still think i have a low self esteem than become happy with it...;) I'm not gonna play endless word games with you Regards Olli This message was edited by Typhoon, on 4/17/2001 12:20:36 AM
Posted on 2001-04-17 00:17:00 by Typhoon
The truth be told, when concidering the orgional choice of section titles, 'BEGINNERS' was always at the top of the list. We all wanted a section that anyone would feel comfortable posting to, even if the question was "What's this asm all yoos guys is talkin about?" The fun part about answering posts is knowing you MUST be accurate or there will be 20 follow-ups painfully pointing out your ommisions. So you tend to really think out answers and actually teach yourself by teaching others. And hey, sometimes someone DOES point out something you truly missed, and you also learn something new.
Posted on 2001-04-17 00:18:00 by Ernie
Here you have it folks, its thumb wrestling battle of the royal. Where the winner gets to spoon feed confidence down the loser's thoat and try again... :) Hee Hee Hee :) Seriously, I think both points have been well made. I agreed origionally with Hel but didnt want to jump into the 'politics', then i saw the Typhoon's reply and I found myself also agreeing with his point. I too like to sometimes set a bit of 'ambiance' with my posts, and if saying "im a Lame-'o' 25 year old professional student who hasnt outgrown ASM" help's get my point across sugestively, then there should really be no problem. But (I think) Hel's concern lies with the possibility that others may not initailly see it as this, and feel they must conform due to their own oppinion of their experience level... So i guess the golden mean here is:
If you think your a lame-o, no one is forcing you to say so. If you think your not a lame-o, please don't hesitate to say you are a lame-o.
Confusious says whaaaaaa? NaN This message was edited by NaN, on 4/17/2001 12:47:04 AM
Posted on 2001-04-17 00:31:00 by NaN
Hi, Hel! THANKS A LOT FOR YOUR TOLERANCE!!! I wrote "Sorry for my terrible English". Yes, It was me. I'm actually sorry and I learn English now. I’m from Kazakhstan (it's a part of the former USSR) and my native language is Russian.
Posted on 2001-04-17 00:59:00 by vkim
Guys, While i have seen my share of what I would call silly questions, we are fortunate on this forum that there area very few. There is nothing wrong with being a newbie to asm and many people who post here are more than willing to help if they can. It is often the case that programmers who are very experienced in other languages are embarressed about asking introductory questions in assembler but a lot of the reason why programmers help here is because they have been in the same situation and had to chase up assembler based information that was very hard to get. I would encourage anyone who needs a question answered to give it a try here, there is no garrantee that the question can be answered but there are enough programmers who will give it a try if they know anything about the area. Now for all of us who don't live in the US, have no fear about lousy english, I live in Australia and we are supposed to speak english but there is no garrantee that you would understand how we speak it. This forum is finally a forum by programmers for programmers so don't worry about less than perfect english, if you have a question or an idea, do the best you can and most people will understand it. Regards,
Posted on 2001-04-17 04:33:00 by hutch--
Hey you All, I know that some of you have been comming here for a year, some a few months ect. Just remember that the more you ask the more you will learn and each day in more under your belt. Lets say you have been here about 6 months asking questions, then one day someone very new ask's a question you can answer. WOW, now you feel very usfull and you swiftly rush to the reply button and you answer it with confidence. well, we are all in the same boat here, we are all here trying to lean. some of us are just at a different level in the learning chain. So what I am getting at it this There is no stupid questions, and each day that goes by you are getting ahead of someone else that just might come here, and I would like to say to each and every one of you that you have done very well, cuz assembly is hard to learn lots of other programers can't learn it, ASM is like the bucking bronco, you eather grab it by the horns and go for the ride, or you get bucked off. well you all have made it this far, and thats alot to say about that.... So as far as my opinion on all of you, I think your all great programmers. keep up the good work...
Posted on 2001-04-17 06:22:00 by Zcoder
Wow, bitrake says I must be masochist to be using assem, now Zcoder says learning assem is hard. I think you must be a masochist to use c/c++. I find pointers far more comprehensible in assem vs c. I wonder why people hear think assembly is hard? Is it really hard for them, or is it just because everyone says it is? I find it to have a simpilicity and elegance. My struggle is with applying assembly to a Windows enviroment, not with assembly. For a beginner, I can see where it can be hard, but why do we keep this culture of assembly must be hard? Why am I asking stuff like this? Clearly I'm weird:P
Posted on 2001-04-17 15:31:00 by asm_happy
He is confident!! Oh yeah, I just know he is confident.. NaN
Posted on 2001-04-17 16:11:00 by NaN
I think people are acting that way (in self eseemish kind of way (wooah that word =)) because they've been told they're lamers one too many times during their learing escapades =) People asking silly questions will most certainly get some replies calling them lamers or what so ever.. Not on this MB tho, and I'm amazed by the kindness of the leets over here =) //Phrekie
Posted on 2001-04-17 17:02:00 by Phrekie
Learning is what life is about :) This message was edited by Hiroshimator, on 4/17/2001 5:15:22 PM
Posted on 2001-04-17 17:14:00 by Hiroshimator
Frankly, Everyone starts out at scratch, and for some its easy then others to get started, say you worked with x86 asm early on w/ dos, possibly your a reverse engineer such was the case with me (im starting to get into it again :)) but you have to start somewhere, i dont think there is not a question this forum can not answer, but sometimes its those really tough ones that people just are too busy to site down and work 3 days on to find an answer. We all started at crap but thats how it is. I really think Asm has established itself as a 'tough' language, hell anytime i tell someone i program is Asm they give me a funny look at say 'Isn't that like really hard??' or 'Are you nutz??' such as my whole Pascal class at our high school. Not to mention all the snobs that devote themself to c++ all there life think Asm is a wast of time, even though we CAN code circles around there sorry asses :] So forget self confidence, cuz we got your back.... -brad
Posted on 2001-04-17 20:33:00 by Rage9
I learned to use ASM by the time I was 12 I am now 42 I never new about other languages untill it was to late, now I can't even learn other languages, I never liked using other langiages I think asm is easy, but I have been thru alot of class's that schools that did a little ASM teaching and every single person said it was hard and ugly. SO I put two and two together, it must be hard for most people. So I belive that it is hard just on those facts, not becouse I think it is. as far as programming in DOS, thats very easy, but as I get to know windows more I find that windows is easier if you can find the API... All the other languages out there are so far away from the CPU that programming in them makes me feel like I am using chop sticks to eat with.... So every one here that is learning ASM, I really think your all doing great, as most of the populus finds it hard to program in. Does this make my satement more CLEAR!!!!! This message was edited by Zcoder, on 4/18/2001 12:37:22 AM
Posted on 2001-04-18 00:34:00 by Zcoder
Your 42?? Hmm, your beard makes you look older... :D NaN
Posted on 2001-04-18 01:03:00 by NaN
I think the problem of programming a computer bear in a wrong way that people learned to use it. The right way to program a computer is learning the ´real computer language´. Asm=computer languange. HLL=human language. Would be cool to have a colege course in that students start to learn processors architecture and then assembly language. They will think and feel how the machine works. They will command the equipment to get the most reliable and speedy code that the equipment can furnish. Maybe, later, they will study HLL as a complement.
Posted on 2001-04-18 06:24:00 by wolfao