SpAsm V.2.13 available.
Posted on 2001-06-09 04:03:00 by Betov
Hi betov... dont be so lacunary ;) tell us whats new? do i still have to write my own assembler? ;) is this one more (at least a little...pretty please) compatible with MASM and TASM ;) Best Regards Bogdan
Posted on 2001-06-09 18:06:00 by BogdanOntanu
Bodgan, i am afraid that to fit with each one whishes, the best, like with IDEs, would be that each one writes his own Assembler -Good luck everybody-. For being compatible with MASM, this is not possible because good can't fit with bad :) ) The main improvements in last uploads have been for IDE and bugs fixing. Now close to end, if not to perfection, i begin the DLL version implementations in a couple of months. For being 'lacunary', first, i don't like to post at this board (you know why). Second, i do this to give a hand to beginners who would like to live in the open source movement, instead of writing for nop. To know what's new, SpAsm package is 3 minutes dowload on a slow line (less than several naked IDEs available around there...). Concerning an Assembler-linker-Debugger with IDE and full Editors set for Sources and Resources this is worth a look and try across 3 years of developpement. Bye, betov.
Posted on 2001-06-10 04:48:00 by Betov
why don't you like to post here betov? It's not that we're biting your nose off or anything. Sure your opinions will not stroke with some others but that's just just what makes the world go round.
Posted on 2001-06-10 16:31:00 by Hiroshimator
Rene, The only person preventing you from posting here is yourself, the world is full of people who "cannot be disagreed with" but they do it at the price of not being heard. This is an assembler forum, not a GNU public licence forum and you can expect resistence when trying to inflict this tiresome nonsense on other people. Maybe you need to understand that there is a big world out there that is not the same as your piece of Europe. Issues in one place are trivial in other places, central and south America have very different problems, Asia is travelling so fast that issues of the type you raise fall into the vacuum behind it, where I live in Australia, issues of that type are things that no-one gives a stuff about. Now related to another issue altogether, you are welcome to include the MASM32 WINDOWS.INC file in spasm as spasm is a freeware project but understand that it is not and will not transfer to a GNU Public Licence, it is copyright freeware that is a joint project between Iczelion and myself. This copyright is to ensure that the data included in it is freely available to any programmer who needs it without any form of dependence or association with any other package. I have downloaded the current version of Spasm and it appears to have improved a lot. My complaints are as follows, it is so different that it makes it hard for people to have a play with it. Dependence on the editor means that the programmer cannot choose what editor they want to use. It would make the package much easier to use if it could be used as a free standing assembler in much the same way as MASM or TASM. I think a programmer could get used to the unusual notation instead of the more usual [ ] for addressing but you make it very hard for them to try it out as the package comes. Regards from a user of the software from the Evil Empire.
Posted on 2001-06-10 19:13:00 by hutch--
I have the opposite opinion from Hutch, in fact I have recommended a couple newbies to give SpAsm a try - they might like it. As long as source code is a commodity, some will stop all of it from being open to the public. I believe in doing as you believe, and that alone shall influence others. Look at the way Randel Hyde promotes his HLA in the news groups, betov. I think it would be a nice show of you to do the same here or in the news groups - no one knows your language better than you. I certainly understand if you don't have the time - which I've assumed thus far.
The punishment for the wise man who refuses to get involved in politics is to be ruled by lesser men. - Plato
Posted on 2001-06-10 20:46:00 by bitRAKE
oh betov, je pense qu'il faut rénommer votre Index.html à index.html (premier lettre pas en capital). Si non, on a toujours la liste de fichiers dans votre repertoire qui s'apparaît au lieu de votre page d'accueil. La petite difference entre *nix et Windows. :) Cordialement et soyez bien-venu. -H- This message was edited by Hiroshimator, on 6/10/2001 8:50:56 PM
Posted on 2001-06-10 20:49:00 by Hiroshimator
I am certain of this much: Future assemblers will look very different from MASM and TASM.
Posted on 2001-06-11 01:28:00 by Larry Hammick
hmm talking about GPL: isn't it so that GPL released programs may only include and run-time link other GPL programs? Else you need the LGPL or the BSD license I think. It sure can get complicated :confused:
Posted on 2001-06-11 02:37:00 by Hiroshimator
Bitrake, I am one of those people who can be disagreed with so feel free to set an example and start programming in Spasm, I am sure Rene would appreciate the support and the feedback. Those of us who are less adventurous can continue to use Microsoft Assembler (MASM) and pick up all of the advantages of power, speed size, convenience, facility and modesty. :) Better still, its freeware direct from Microsoft and its GPL free as well, you don't have to give your code to a bunch of GPL freeloaders if you don't want to but you can post your code as freeware if you wish. Thats the difference with true freeware, you have the choice to write what you like but no requirement to give it away if you don't want to. I can comfortably live in a world of people who among others write code under such a licence scheme but in no way do I accept the imperative that everything I write should be available to everyone else. I suggest that I am among many others who like to be able to write their own code with no obligation to anyone else. Now notwithstanding these considerations, I in fact am not hostile to Rene and would like to see him develop Spasm into a viable alternative assembler. It is a large undertaking to perform and I think that Rene should be congratulated for getting an assembler to work properly but it will need a lot of additional feedback and change before it can compete with a product of MASM's age, power and maturity. Regards,
Posted on 2001-06-11 05:17:00 by hutch--
My own personal experience with SpAsm is that the editor doesn't allow me to move around the source code very quickly in the way that I'm familiar with (ie a scroll bar). Other things with the language and interface don't feel familiar to me - yes, I'm biased by my use of other windows software, and other programming environments. Above all I have my own ideas about what a programming environment should be like. It took me a while to find out that this was what I was struggling against - I don't like any environments that exist! Assembly language has benefits that no other language can offer, but I don't feel comfortable writing windows programs with any current development environment. As betov has learned, I think I could learn a thing or two by designing an environment that is confortable to me. And that might only be to learn that I want to much, and there is not this level of comfort I seek. :) Who knows until they have traveled the path. As it stands now, I think SpAsm has been primarily a learning tool for betov more than anything else. He will more on to write greater programs with the knowledge he has gained. I like Larry's comment, and believe it, too! There have been hints on the board that Larry is thinking about designing something, himself. :) And have you look at how he codes? You can tell a lot about a person by the way they code. :P Go Larry, go Larry! And then there is Beth on the news groups - she is cooking up something special. She has a great deal of passion towards her work and I can't wait to see what she has come up with! I could type a lot more here, but they are telling me that they want me to actually work here at work. :P
Posted on 2001-06-11 10:48:00 by bitRAKE
welll... lesseee.... #1.... a free software licence... that preserves "freedom" by REQUIRING that modifications be made available in source form... ??¿?¿ #2... a copyrighted piece of software... but when you write something with it ya can do pretty much what ya wish.... hmmmm i think ill take whats behind door#2! (actually i find the bsd licence quite pleasant too... (speaking of the original) ... im plenty willing to tell who wrote codes that i modify in exchange for the right to do what i damn well please.... unlike some web sites that consider it "onerous" (maybe this whole post should be continued in "off topic" or something though?) heheh
Posted on 2001-06-11 11:30:00 by lurker_again
As I said before:
As long as source code is a commodity, some will stop all of it from being open to the public.
For source code not to be a commodity, means it has no value, and that's not going to happen. Some will always seek to control the path that information takes external from themself - this is an absurd practise, but one with a long history. :) This history will take a long time to reverse itself, and I figure it will only take place under extreme circumstances. I believe in 'Open' information. This message was edited by bitRAKE, on 6/11/2001 2:26:44 PM
Posted on 2001-06-11 13:32:00 by bitRAKE
Of course bitRake is right. My greatness is equalled only by my becoming modesty. The software field is unique in that it has a built-in tendancy to become monopolized, simply because it is so dependant on conventionality. Convention is good, monopoly is bad. What to do? I don't know. I guess the GNU people are worried that what they do for free others might do not for free. Something like that happened with the idea of window-style interfaces. The idea originated with Xerox, who did not market it. But years later Apple and Microsoft were in court over who owned it. Betov will be amused when he sees his folder on fire.
Posted on 2001-06-11 14:00:00 by Larry Hammick
I continued this thread w/ a poll at:Vote now!
Posted on 2001-06-11 14:27:00 by bitRAKE
Answers to... ____ Iro: I don't like . This appends usually when the 'mood' of the tread is turning hard, at your opinion. The fact is, that what is shocking for you is not shocking for me (and reverse). Example, the last thread you closed was for a guy who wrote upper case and was a bit agressive and out of reason. Well, i would never have closed such a thread (nor any one else...). I like agressive person (i am one) and reason can be pointed to... As an oposite, when i see, for example, threads that point to docs written in .doc format (what is something my eyes can't believe and that i will *never* read), or some others that point to something to buy to get some info (same comment), you don't seem to be so much shocked as i am. Well, as Hutch said in his first upper thread (about my little area of Europe), yes, we definitively live in different worlds. ______ Hutch: You should drink a bit less alcool and re-read the GPL licence and the M$ MASM licence. MASM is not free. In particular, it is illegal to use it for a non-M$ system, what turns its use a 'write-for-nop-tool' because it will no more be any use when ReactOS will be ready. SpAsm GPL applies to SpAsm source. Of course *not* to Applications written with SpAsm. This is an idea as strange as if you think that a text written with an open source Editor should be GPLed too. Any case, the GPL includes a paragraph that tells that if i give my permission, anything is possible, and i claim it here: "Do what you want with it!" I GPLed SpAsm to give to users the guaranty that he can have access to the source in the futur and because i want SpAsm to be part of the futur OS distributions. Nothing more. In fact, i don't care of any licence at all and of any state law at all. I just consider any author right as a crime. Author rights kill people around the world. Author rights make culture and creativity lower and lower. For my upload of the file, previously, it was not part of SpAsm package. Now, it is uploaded *aside* SpAsm package because i removed all the Win Data from the package to prevent users from downloading all of this at each new version. The GPL applies to, not to all the other files i have on my page. If you wrote this because you want me to say 'thank you Hutch', i'd remove it instead. For MASM beeing """" GPL free """"", congratulations: I would never have think of it, but indead, this is fully true. May be, in the next step, Windows will be """" Freedom free """""... Great! _________________ Ricky and Bodgan: :) Sure, SpAsm IDE is not pretty. It is a programming tool, not a toy like many pretty other ones. I made it as naked as possible, just a simple window with a menu and no scroll bar, no State bar, no Toolbar, no Splash Screen, no... Would you be able to discribe your ideal IDE, Ricky? It would interrest me a lot because what is evidence for one is not for another one (if you have time to, ... i know it's difficult). For moving around the sources, the Right Click feature is hundread times more powerfull than Scroll Bars, at my opinion. Do you disagrea with this? How could i track out one particular routine i wrote 2 years ago, inside a 1 Mo source with a scroll Bar??? With Right Click, even if i have forgotten the routine name, i have got it in couple of Clicks... Yes, SpAsm developpement have been a learning area for me all along these years, and it still is. There are many things inside i am ashamed of. But it works as is and i will not rewrite it all because i would learn even more and it would never be finished ;) _______ To all: I have sometimes the strange impression than no-one remembers what Win32 assembly was 5 years ago. May be i missed some steps because i was in another life, but the very first Demo i saw was Rand.exe, from Adam Stanislav (1998). I begun programming in 1968 on IBM cards machines. When Win 3 won the market war against GeoWorks, i stopped any program
Posted on 2001-06-11 15:12:00 by Betov
The closing of BOTH of Steve's threads - the first threads he ever posted here - was the main reasons he doesn't post here now. He is a troubled man that only wishes to communicate. I am for teaching and this requires an open door. Betov, sometimes starting over is a good thing. I am certainly not saying for you to, but in some situations you can not get where you wish to go without back-tracking and starting over. The right click feature is a helpful tool. Why can't a powerful tool be pretty? Why does a tool need to be striped? The commandline is all but gone! The world is a changing place!
Posted on 2001-06-11 16:20:00 by bitRAKE
well bitrake he shouldn't have posted mindless non-asm blatter in his own and other threads, going under pseudonyms of pee pee, spee spee and one other (I can't remember). As I said IPs don't lie. That's why I closed the second thread. If he's really serious about it all then he should act like, not post stupid irrelevant things that I then have to hunt for and delete.
Posted on 2001-06-11 16:26:00 by Hiroshimator
Yeah, that sound pretty childish! It's just real sad that his life is so messed up. Guess we all did what we could. Children can be so much work sometimes - without boundaries they just go as far as they can go. But left to himself things would only get worse. Not that any of us could help him. Is there another avenue that this thread can transverse... :)
Posted on 2001-06-11 18:04:00 by bitRAKE
I only want to say thay I ALSO cried a lot when GeoWorks got killed by Win3...unfair IMHO...but what is fair in this money driven world? Even today I still belive Geo was/is a much better OS then Win not to metion it was using a full ASM kernel. its succesor BeOS(c) is not worth its legacy ;( but i will use Win until i make myself a better OS ;) (and NOT in C) Besides i still belive Win GUI has its advantages, and a win application that is not a game ... should use it...after all this interface is not so original, allmost all Unixes(c) etc have something like it...variations but the same windows concept Even ReactOS(c) tries to REDO the Windows(c) and does not make its own starting from zero concept ... and i dont like this...because a fresh start has to be from zero...even if you have to reinvent the wheel is better to do it your way then somebody's else way... but then again is childish to ignore something good just because it comes from "a certain" company I like SpAsm overall... but its strange way of doing things is "killing me softly" and i dont see the advantages in long term or large projects like i want to do (directX games, OS developement etc), i guess i could use it if i had no TASM/MASM ;) but its a good start...more then i have done in this field... and i allways respect ppl that do more then i did ;)
Posted on 2001-06-11 18:59:00 by BogdanOntanu