i agree to prevent cracking on this board but nobody wanted to dicuss such things here for now... in my opinion its still not good to close threads because of the word "SEH" or "RING0" or "VIRUS" think about it. i worked for software companys, too & i know how it feels if others crack your progs but thats life that your problem... now i work for a company that pays me for cracking into other progs - at first i thought it is not a good way to earn money but now i don't care ... if i can't get money because of other ppl cracking my progs i crack theirs and get more than i ever dreamed of...funny. i do not wanted to start another ~war~ here i just want everybody to be more relaxed nothing more... bye.
Posted on 2001-06-21 12:34:00 by _drcmda
now i work for a company that pays me for cracking into other progs - at first i thought it is not a good way to earn money but now i don't care
I think it is a sad loss, I am sorry for you. umbongo
Posted on 2001-06-21 17:07:00 by umbongo
I wonder what kind of a company pays people to perform illegal actions and break the law, and violate intellectual property, and trample on the DMCA (not that I care about the DMCA)??? Surely, they are providing no benefit to the consumers. Because of companies?? or people like that, we have to pay more for software, more laws, more litigation, and less rights. _Shawn
Posted on 2001-06-21 19:12:00 by _Shawn
There are a number of things going on here, I personally saw the initial request as innocuous enough but I well understand the view that Hiroshimator has and I fully support it. What we all have here as members is a reasonably unique forum that is effectively "CRAP FREE" and it is by design that it will be kept that way. Assembler has been around before most other forms of language and there is no necessary association with virus design, cracking commercial software, hacking web sites and the range of illegal activities that it has at times been put to. Among the programmers who support the forum as members there are commercial application writers, hobbyists, researchers, students and a whole range of people who are honest and hard working and have NO association with any illegal activity. The policy that Hiroshimator has put in place and that I fully support is designed to keep this forum a clean and friendly place that is free of the nonsense that so many others have. The notion of "freedom" has been a little overworked in this topic, freedom of the type mentioned is the freedom to be spammed with garbage, cracking group recruitment, virus writers sprouting their demented ideologies, political and social theory hidden under software licencing systems and the list of nonsense goes on and on. No-one here is trying to prevent anyone else from having their own notion of freedom of speech but the responsibility for the vehicle that these things can be said and done in must rest with the people who make it possible and want to set up the facilities to do it. Anyone who wants a virus writers forum, a cracking forum, hacking forum or whatever else is "free" to set up their own forum but with this forum, assembler language programmers are the people who are being catered for and it will stay that way. Debuggers and disassemblers are part of low level programming and are not in themselves a problem at all. Reverse Engineering is in fact a very respectable facet of programming, recovering the mountain of software on mainframes written 30 years ago on punch cards so that it can be modernised and ported to much later hardware is a very tedious job but it is not related to cracking commercial software. I have no objection to any of these things as they are the tools of programmers but when the activity becomes illegal, the person who makes the post can expect it to be deleted and if they persist they can expect Hiroshimator to "NUKE" them. This way we all keep this forum as a valuable resource that allows assembler programmers to communicate, swap ideas, help each other and do it in a friendly and legal way. Regards, hutch@pbq.com.au
Posted on 2001-06-21 20:06:00 by hutch--
Aimless, Read volume 3 of the Intel's manual, chapter 14. It explains how to use the debugging features of the Intel processor. One method could be to install an interrupt handler to catch int3 expection. You load the program you want to trace and add an int3 instruction after every instructions. In the interrupt handler, you decode the current instruction and you log it to a file. It's a good idea, it could make a nice debugging tool.
Posted on 2001-06-22 03:17:00 by karim
ahm shawn & umbongo sorry but i didn't make things clear... i don't crack those progs they give me so that they can use them for free ... i just make some changes like adding a encryption in a videoconference sf ... this modified versions are only used by this company and not selled or distributed in any way... i know it's still wrong but it's ok for me :) all this stuff i'm doing there is security related they just read to many hacking reports or whatever but i can understand that a company wants to be more ~safe~ these days.
Posted on 2001-06-22 20:26:00 by _drcmda
"No-one here is trying to prevent anyone else from having their own notion of freedom of speech " "the person who makes the post can expect it to be deleted and if they persist they can expect Hiroshimator to "NUKE" them." Need I say more?
Posted on 2001-06-22 22:31:00 by [=CC=]AMBUSH
[=cc=] ambush, the fact that you're allowed to have your own notion of freedom of speech does not mean that you can exercise it as well, those are 2 different things. Nobody ever can really exercise freedom of speech as long as we're in a world governed by rules. For those willing to test: just glorify Hitler or something similar or threaten in public to kill your president for you Americans and Big Brother will quickly come knocking at your door. What is perceived as freedom of speech in reality is nothing more then getting along in common sense and communicating in a civilised manner under society rules.
Posted on 2001-06-23 06:31:00 by Hiroshimator
[=CC=]AMBUSH, ================= Need I say more? ================= Ummmm, YES. You are free at any time to put your arse on the line as Hiroshimator has done with the web server that provides the service for the forum, complete with your REAL name address and email address as a paid customer and be entirely free to post what you like. You could allow anyone else to post what they like as well but it will be YOU who has your account closed, Police arrive at your door and other pleasantries, not the person who posts on your forum under an anonymous name. If you want this type of freedom go right ahead but on this forum ANY illegal postings will mysteriously disappear. It seems to be an attempt by people who wish to remain anonymous to freeload on others who have made the forum possible by trying to pass the responsibility for illegal postings to them. This is not "freedom" its just passing the buck to someone else. Regards, hutch@pbq.com.au
Posted on 2001-06-23 06:57:00 by hutch--
"[=cc=] ambush, the fact that you're allowed to have your own notion of freedom of speech does not mean that you can exercise it as well, those are 2 different things. Nobody ever can really exercise freedom of speech as long as we're in a world governed by rules. For those willing to test: just glorify Hitler or something similar or threaten in public to kill your president for you Americans and Big Brother will quickly come knocking at your door. What is perceived as freedom of speech in reality is nothing more then getting along in common sense and communicating in a civilised manner under society rules." No arguement here. You couldn't be more right. "You are free at any time to put your arse on the line as Hiroshimator has done with the web server that provides the service for the forum, complete with your REAL name address and email address as a paid customer and be entirely free to post what you like. " I never said I wanted the right to say what I wanted on this board. I have no problem with Hiro running the board any way he wants. There are pelenty of other places to go if I decide I don't like it. "It seems to be an attempt by people who wish to remain anonymous to freeload on others who have made the forum possible by trying to pass the responsibility for illegal postings to them. This is not "freedom" its just passing the buck to someone else." Well one thing is clear, I have seen no such attempt on this thread. The first person to make any mention of illegal activity was hero himself. It wasn't till that post, that thread becam about hacking (not to mention law and ethics). If your going to take the post that started this thread and presume the intent is illegal then why not this one? "sprintf trouble" Clearly this could be an attempt to print disassembly to a file. Right? or "Finding the last occurance of a character" This could easily be someone attempting to crack something. "Self-modifying code" This person is obviously trying to create a mutating virus. Right? None of these people said anything about doing anything illegal. So as far as I am concerned they are not. Cause it doesn't really matter if they are or not, the point is that they didn't post anything that implicates the board as promoting illegal activity. Just like in a court of law (which is exactly what you are concerned with here) you can't convict someone on speculation (ok well maybe, but it is pretty damn hard).
Posted on 2001-06-23 08:31:00 by [=CC=]AMBUSH
[=CC=]AMBUSH, ================================= Well one thing is clear, I have seen no such attempt on this thread. The first person to make any mention of illegal activity was hero himself. It wasn't till that post, that thread becam about hacking (not to mention law and ethics). If your going to take the post that started this thread and presume the intent is illegal then why not this one? ================================= I have already deleted threads where postings have referred to "hacking servers" and I have closed threads where the content was directly related to virus coding and I will continue to back Hiroshimator to keep this forum clean and free from any association with illegal activities. I personally had no problems with someone being interested in either debuggers or disassemblers but I agree that its a fair question to ask and such questions are based on the experience of dealing with many people who disguise their intent. I run into it regularly on IRC where someone wastes your time with a disguised "cracking" question Now the criterion you mentioned does not appear to be related to experience dealing with people who are chasing info to write viruses, trojans or specialised cracking tools. "sprintf trouble" Clearly this could be an attempt to print disassembly to a file. Right? or "Finding the last occurance of a character" This could easily be someone attempting to crack something. "Self-modifying code" This person is obviously trying to create a mutating virus. Right? Easy "throw away" lines but not really in the direction of where the problems of illegal postings come from. Quoting my post in 2 places out of context may be a method of arguing the rights of anyone to post anything depending on you personal theories about "freedom" but it does not address the problem. "No-one here is trying to prevent anyone else from having their own notion of freedom of speech " "the person who makes the post can expect it to be deleted and if they persist they can expect Hiroshimator to "NUKE" them." Your point here fails on a simple consistency basis. I run bots on IRC to protect the channel, Hiro runs this forum with the same idea and I fully support him, bleating about a percieved loss of "freedom of speach" will not effect that, illegal postings WILL disappear, with or without approval of the person who posts them. Regards, hutch@pbq.com.au
Posted on 2001-06-23 09:23:00 by hutch--
hutch-- You still miss the point. I don't give a #$@* what rules you impose. It is fine with me. All I am saying is those two quotes don't belong in the same post. They are completely contradictory (in their appropriate context). Furthermore I didn't say that people don't post messages that don't belong here. I said not in this "thread". If you ask someone one the intention of their post (cause you suspect it is illegal), and they respond with a reasonably legal reason for the post, I don't see the basis for deleting it. My point being that if you speculate without any real knowledge that a post is for an illegal purpose, then you could ultimately do that with any post. Where does it end?
Posted on 2001-06-23 10:08:00 by [=CC=]AMBUSH
hmmm... strange. very strange. you guy are lucky, very lucky to have such a open forum like this where you can learn win32asm. beside that, i think you will not find another good one. and even if you did, it will have more problem than this. this forum is just an EXTENSION to ICZELION'S TUTORIAL. Who don'tget that sentence? there are plenty of site out there that talks about programming. but the problem of getting in there is that you have to pay (credit card). no expert or gurus would want to sit there and answer your question for FREE!. beside that, not everyone have credit card. here, they do it for free, it's a community. they work together, day and night, trying to make it clean for you guy to learn and here, this what you pays in return??
Posted on 2001-06-23 10:35:00 by disease_2000
hahaha what a conclusion... :D iczelion wanted to extend his site with "nonstandart" win32asm programming (hacking win source?/exploiting windoze?) hm if he really write new tutorials then after reading your post it would be allowed to post such things here or what? this msgboard is definitively NOT a extension of his tutorials! it's a assembly board where ppl come together and help each other...
Posted on 2001-06-23 13:15:00 by _drcmda
this is my last post on thread like this (i'll keep my mouth shut and mind my own business now on. take care.) you guy will never understand. only those who once a hacker, now are not. there are plenty of reverse site out there, why don't you go there and learn more about it (someone sent me a link to it. you know who you are and thanx you for sending. the forum is very informative). i like reverse engineer. very much. but this is not the place for me. know who you are and where you belongs! and yes, this is a forum where each and one of us come together and help each other out. but there are rules that you have to obey. there's always rule no matter where you go. ============================================================ and by the way, alot of books on assembly that i read say "Why learn Assembler" there's something wrong there. ASSEMBLER is a compiler. Assembly is the language assembly is your favorite language. If it is, try and use the right term. You guy got brainwasted. (bye all, no hard feeling. just expression. you guy are older than me, you should know better) This message was edited by disease_2000, on 6/23/2001 1:55:40 PM
Posted on 2001-06-23 13:44:00 by disease_2000
I think this thread got out of hand and perpertoed things out of context. Yes, I've had input on this thread. I still think that it got way out of hand. _Shawn
Posted on 2001-06-23 16:59:00 by _Shawn
Folks, I am closing this thread because it is serving no point. The policy for protecting the forum is in place and it will stay that way so that the forum will survive. Aimless, Feel free to post questions about debugging or decompilers but note that you may not get a lot of technical answers because it is a complex area. Regards, hutch@pbq.com.au
Posted on 2001-06-23 18:50:00 by hutch--