i agree to prevent cracking on this board
but nobody wanted to dicuss such things here
for now... in my opinion its still not good
to close threads because of the word "SEH"
or "RING0" or "VIRUS" think about it. i
worked for software companys, too & i know how
it feels if others crack your progs but thats
life that your problem... now i work for a
company that pays me for cracking into other
progs - at first i thought it is not a good
way to earn money but now i don't care ... if
i can't get money because of other ppl cracking
my progs i crack theirs and get more than i
ever dreamed of...funny. i do not wanted to start
another ~war~ here i just want everybody to be
more relaxed nothing more... bye.
now i work for a
company that pays me for cracking into other
progs - at first i thought it is not a good
way to earn money but now i don't care
I think it is a sad loss, I am sorry for you.
umbongoI wonder what kind of a company pays people to perform illegal actions and break the law, and violate intellectual property, and trample on the DMCA (not that I care about the DMCA)??? Surely, they are providing no benefit to the consumers. Because of companies?? or people like that, we have to pay more for software, more laws, more litigation, and less rights.
_Shawn
There are a number of things going on here, I personally saw the
initial request as innocuous enough but I well understand the view
that Hiroshimator has and I fully support it.
What we all have here as members is a reasonably unique forum that
is effectively "CRAP FREE" and it is by design that it will be kept
that way.
Assembler has been around before most other forms of language and
there is no necessary association with virus design, cracking
commercial software, hacking web sites and the range of illegal
activities that it has at times been put to.
Among the programmers who support the forum as members there are
commercial application writers, hobbyists, researchers, students
and a whole range of people who are honest and hard working and have
NO association with any illegal activity. The policy that Hiroshimator
has put in place and that I fully support is designed to keep this
forum a clean and friendly place that is free of the nonsense that
so many others have.
The notion of "freedom" has been a little overworked in this topic,
freedom of the type mentioned is the freedom to be spammed with garbage,
cracking group recruitment, virus writers sprouting their demented
ideologies, political and social theory hidden under software licencing
systems and the list of nonsense goes on and on.
No-one here is trying to prevent anyone else from having their own
notion of freedom of speech but the responsibility for the vehicle
that these things can be said and done in must rest with the people
who make it possible and want to set up the facilities to do it.
Anyone who wants a virus writers forum, a cracking forum, hacking forum
or whatever else is "free" to set up their own forum but with this
forum, assembler language programmers are the people who are being
catered for and it will stay that way.
Debuggers and disassemblers are part of low level programming and
are not in themselves a problem at all. Reverse Engineering is in fact
a very respectable facet of programming, recovering the mountain
of software on mainframes written 30 years ago on punch cards so
that it can be modernised and ported to much later hardware is a very
tedious job but it is not related to cracking commercial software.
I have no objection to any of these things as they are the tools
of programmers but when the activity becomes illegal, the person
who makes the post can expect it to be deleted and if they persist
they can expect Hiroshimator to "NUKE" them.
This way we all keep this forum as a valuable resource that allows
assembler programmers to communicate, swap ideas, help each other
and do it in a friendly and legal way.
Regards,
hutch@pbq.com.au
Aimless,
Read volume 3 of the Intel's manual, chapter 14. It explains how to use the debugging features of the Intel processor. One method could be to install an interrupt handler to catch int3 expection. You load the program you want to trace and add an int3 instruction after every instructions. In the interrupt handler, you decode the current instruction and you log it to a file. It's a good idea, it could make a nice debugging tool.
ahm shawn & umbongo sorry but i didn't make
things clear... i don't crack those progs they
give me so that they can use them for free ...
i just make some changes like adding a encryption
in a videoconference sf ... this modified versions
are only used by this company and not selled or
distributed in any way... i know it's still wrong
but it's ok for me :) all this stuff i'm doing
there is security related they just read to many
hacking reports or whatever but i can understand
that a company wants to be more ~safe~ these days.
"No-one here is trying to prevent anyone else from having their own notion of freedom of speech "
"the person
who makes the post can expect it to be deleted and if they persist
they can expect Hiroshimator to "NUKE" them."
Need I say more?
[=cc=] ambush, the fact that you're allowed to have your own notion of freedom of speech does not mean that you can exercise it as well, those are 2 different things.
Nobody ever can really exercise freedom of speech as long as we're in a world governed by rules.
For those willing to test: just glorify Hitler or something similar or threaten in public to kill your president for you Americans and Big Brother will quickly come knocking at your door.
What is perceived as freedom of speech in reality is nothing more then getting along in common sense and communicating in a civilised manner under society rules.
[=CC=]AMBUSH,
=================
Need I say more?
=================
Ummmm, YES. You are free at any time to put your arse on the line
as Hiroshimator has done with the web server that provides the
service for the forum, complete with your REAL name address and
email address as a paid customer and be entirely free to post what
you like. You could allow anyone else to post what they like as well
but it will be YOU who has your account closed, Police arrive at
your door and other pleasantries, not the person who posts on your
forum under an anonymous name.
If you want this type of freedom go right ahead but on this forum
ANY illegal postings will mysteriously disappear. It seems to be
an attempt by people who wish to remain anonymous to freeload on
others who have made the forum possible by trying to pass the
responsibility for illegal postings to them. This is not "freedom"
its just passing the buck to someone else.
Regards,
hutch@pbq.com.au
"[=cc=] ambush, the fact that you're allowed to have your own notion of freedom of speech does not mean that you can exercise it as well, those are 2 different things.
Nobody ever can really exercise freedom of speech as long as we're in a world governed by rules.
For those willing to test: just glorify Hitler or something similar or threaten in public to kill your president for you Americans and Big Brother will quickly come knocking at your door.
What is perceived as freedom of speech in reality is nothing more then getting along in common sense and communicating in a civilised manner under society rules."
No arguement here. You couldn't be more right.
"You are free at any time to put your arse on the line
as Hiroshimator has done with the web server that provides the
service for the forum, complete with your REAL name address and
email address as a paid customer and be entirely free to post what
you like. "
I never said I wanted the right to say what I wanted on this board. I have no problem with Hiro
running the board any way he wants. There are pelenty of other places to go if I decide I
don't like it.
"It seems to be
an attempt by people who wish to remain anonymous to freeload on
others who have made the forum possible by trying to pass the
responsibility for illegal postings to them. This is not "freedom"
its just passing the buck to someone else."
Well one thing is clear, I have seen no such attempt on this thread. The first
person to make any mention of illegal activity was hero himself. It wasn't till
that post, that thread becam about hacking (not to mention law and ethics). If your
going to take the post that started this thread and presume the intent is illegal
then why not this one?
"sprintf trouble"
Clearly this could be an attempt to print disassembly to a file. Right?
or
"Finding the last occurance of a character"
This could easily be someone attempting to crack something.
"Self-modifying code"
This person is obviously trying to create a mutating virus. Right?
None of these people said anything about doing anything illegal. So as far as I am
concerned they are not. Cause it doesn't really matter if they are or not, the point is
that they didn't post anything that implicates the board as promoting illegal activity.
Just like in a court of law (which is exactly what you are concerned with here) you
can't convict someone on speculation (ok well maybe, but it is pretty damn hard).
[=CC=]AMBUSH,
=================================
Well one thing is clear, I have seen no such attempt on this thread. The first
person to make any mention of illegal activity was hero himself. It wasn't till
that post, that thread becam about hacking (not to mention law and ethics). If your
going to take the post that started this thread and presume the intent is illegal
then why not this one?
=================================
I have already deleted threads where postings have referred to
"hacking servers" and I have closed threads where the content was
directly related to virus coding and I will continue to back
Hiroshimator to keep this forum clean and free from any association
with illegal activities.
I personally had no problems with someone being interested in either
debuggers or disassemblers but I agree that its a fair question to
ask and such questions are based on the experience of dealing with
many people who disguise their intent. I run into it regularly on IRC
where someone wastes your time with a disguised "cracking" question
Now the criterion you mentioned does not appear to be related to
experience dealing with people who are chasing info to write viruses,
trojans or specialised cracking tools.
"sprintf trouble"
Clearly this could be an attempt to print disassembly to a file. Right?
or
"Finding the last occurance of a character"
This could easily be someone attempting to crack something.
"Self-modifying code"
This person is obviously trying to create a mutating virus. Right?
Easy "throw away" lines but not really in the direction of where
the problems of illegal postings come from.
Quoting my post in 2 places out of context may be a method of arguing
the rights of anyone to post anything depending on you personal
theories about "freedom" but it does not address the problem.
"No-one here is trying to prevent anyone else from having their own notion of freedom
of speech "
"the person
who makes the post can expect it to be deleted and if they persist
they can expect Hiroshimator to "NUKE" them."
Your point here fails on a simple consistency basis.
I run bots on IRC to protect the channel, Hiro runs this forum with
the same idea and I fully support him, bleating about a percieved
loss of "freedom of speach" will not effect that, illegal postings WILL
disappear, with or without approval of the person who posts them.
Regards,
hutch@pbq.com.au
hutch--
You still miss the point. I don't give a #$@* what rules you impose. It is fine with me. All I am saying is those two quotes don't belong in the same post. They are completely contradictory (in their appropriate context). Furthermore I didn't say that people don't post messages that don't belong here. I said not in this "thread". If you ask someone one
the intention of their post (cause you suspect it is illegal),
and they respond with a reasonably legal reason for the post,
I don't see the basis for deleting it. My point being that if you speculate without any real knowledge that a post is for an
illegal purpose, then you could ultimately do that with any post.
Where does it end?
hmmm... strange. very strange. you guy are lucky, very lucky to
have such a open forum like this where you can learn win32asm.
beside that, i think you will not find another good one. and even
if you did, it will have more problem than this.
this forum is just an EXTENSION to ICZELION'S TUTORIAL.
Who don'tget that sentence? there are plenty of site out there
that talks about programming. but the problem of getting in there
is that you have to pay (credit card). no expert or gurus would
want to sit there and answer your question for FREE!.
beside that, not everyone have credit card.
here, they do it for free, it's a community. they work together,
day and night, trying to make it clean for you guy to learn and
here, this what you pays in return??
hahaha what a conclusion... :D
iczelion wanted to extend his site
with "nonstandart" win32asm programming
(hacking win source?/exploiting windoze?)
hm if he really write new tutorials
then after reading your post it would
be allowed to post such things here or
what? this msgboard is definitively NOT
a extension of his tutorials!
it's a assembly board where ppl come
together and help each other...
this is my last post on thread like this (i'll keep my mouth shut
and mind my own business now on. take care.)
you guy will never understand. only those who once a hacker, now
are not. there are plenty of reverse site out there, why don't
you go there and learn more about it (someone sent me a link to
it. you know who you are and thanx you for sending. the forum is
very informative).
i like reverse engineer. very much. but this is not the place for
me. know who you are and where you belongs!
and yes, this is a forum where each and one of us come together and
help each other out. but there are rules that you have to
obey. there's always rule no matter where you go.
============================================================
and by the way, alot of books on assembly that i read say
"Why learn Assembler"
there's something wrong there. ASSEMBLER is a compiler.
Assembly is the language
assembly is your favorite language. If it is, try and use
the right term. You guy got brainwasted.
(bye all, no hard feeling. just expression. you guy are older
than me, you should know better)
This message was edited by disease_2000, on 6/23/2001 1:55:40 PM
I think this thread got out of hand and perpertoed things out of context. Yes, I've had input on this thread. I still think that it got way out of hand.
_Shawn
Folks,
I am closing this thread because it is serving no point. The policy
for protecting the forum is in place and it will stay that way
so that the forum will survive.
Aimless,
Feel free to post questions about debugging or decompilers but
note that you may not get a lot of technical answers because it
is a complex area.
Regards,
hutch@pbq.com.au