Hi, I'm currnetly writing a game in assembly, hopefully I'll have a beta ready in two weeks times to show here but for now while I still have the luxury of being able to rewrite whole sections of the code relativly easily I was wondering should I optmise for mmx. Its a 3d space game, but its nothing too fancy so it should run on old pre mmx computers. The optimisations I'd be thinking of would be nothing majour as most calculations are floating point not integer, however I can think of a few places wher movq would speed up things. The question is would I be canceling out too many people or is mmx pretty much standard minium these days.
Posted on 2001-06-26 18:24:00 by Zadkiel
Hi, well, I assume, most of the users in here interested in games really have more then just MMX these days. However I have to work on a rather old K5 PR-150 (A pentium at 166 MHZ, overclocked). Maybe you should do different versions or the ability to specifiy whether MMX is available on the machine or not in a menu and based on that you use one or the other way. Stefan
Posted on 2001-06-26 20:02:00 by Stefan Krause
I personally think if you dont have a processor that supports mmx by now that playing games isnt something that you plan on doing with that computer. The only reson why the individual may still have his dinisaur is to probably do word processing, bit of web surfing and emailing. feel free to optimize smurf
Posted on 2001-06-26 20:03:00 by smurf
my addon to smurf is that people like me still use such machine to do programming. :) this is the FUTURE you're talking about. go for MMX. hmm... i wonder who still use pentium one to play game... anyway, check the net for more detail. :)
Posted on 2001-06-26 20:08:00 by disease_2000
my add on is that MMX (from our tests) will not help much a P2+ computer (it will help a P1/166 computer...doh) our tests show a +1%..+2% improvement .. i guess memory bandwidth is the main limitation :( however the extra registers can help as extra storage space/variables ... but ONLY if you do NOT use the FPU... but i see you allready use FPU...so...
Posted on 2001-06-26 21:36:00 by BogdanOntanu
Bogdan, Does the FPU share with the MMX registers? _Shawn
Posted on 2001-06-26 23:54:00 by _Shawn
A couple of things, if you are going to use MMX registers and games are a good area to do this, I would be inclined to put some testing code in the app to make sure it was available first. You have 2 choices, run both code types and choose which one based on the availability of the MMX registers or alternatively display a warning that the program cannot run without an MMX capable machine. Shawn raised a good point here, FP and MMX share the same registers on an Intel box so you will have to be careful to handle the transition from one to another otherwise you get very bad performance penalties. Regards, hutch@pbq.com.au
Posted on 2001-06-27 01:42:00 by hutch--
I personally think if you dont have a processor that supports mmx by now that playing games isnt something that you plan on doing with that computer. The only reson why the individual may still have his dinisaur is to probably do word processing, bit of web surfing and emailing
this is the FUTURE you're talking about. go for MMX. hmm... i wonder who still use pentium one to play game...
Man, that is very hard to people who can't effort computers with more the 1.5 GH and at least 256 MB RAM. And what are you talking about? They can't play games? This is just your opinion because you seem to think
  • Good Game equ Incredible Graphics
  • Good Game equ Requirement for at least 900 MB HD Space
  • Good Game equ AI beating everybody
  • Good Game equ Need for newest DirectX Version
  • Good Game equ No Story
  • Good Game equ No Gameplay
  • Sorry you two, but this is what you claim here. I know there are alot of people out there who don't care about the age of a game. They just saw the game and knew "This is worth buying and playing". Do some of you remember Outlaws by LucasArts? It is an about 4-5 years old 3D-FirstPerson Shooter. Don't say "bah, just another shooter". This game was real fun. It's story was about an ex-marshal hunting for the murders of his wife and the kid-nappers of his daughter. The sound of the game was excellent under the aspect of atmosphere. The graphic wasn't the best one (it used the DarkForces 3D Engine) but it fitted the game (was a bit cartoonish). There was some need for gaming skills and not just pure "machine gun action without reloading". That was a really good game. And that was just one out of many good games. And there are other types of fun games. Do you know PLAYSITE? There are online games like card games, scramble, etc... Ever played such funny things over internet with friends? That is real fun. And why are you saing one cannot play games on a pentium I?? If you give your old computer some extra-power (with a 3D-ADDON-card, extra RAM, bigger HD, some more coolers for overclocked systems and to cool down the whole tower) you are still able to play games on this computer. But who cares. The bad thing is that the majority of users prefer new stunning games and then the gameindustry has to produce such games. Luckily I have enough of these old games available to play alone or against friends on LAN/Internet. That's all I'll say here, so don't bother about answers.
    Posted on 2001-06-27 06:13:00 by Stefan Krause
     --------------------------------------------------------------------
     I'm confused. it's just an opinion. different people have  different
     view because they live in different environment. what Zadkiel  wants
     was an opinion. Let me alone explain my view in full detail. Starti-
     ng now:
     --------------------------------------------------------------------
    
     what is game? why do kids play game? why do we play game? what  type
     of game do we/kids play? does kid really care about graphics? NO.
    
     Kids have different view on what game is, so do we. People  who play
     game when they're bored have completely different view than those  -
     who plays everyday. I like to play game, very much. But i'm  getting
     old every second and time to me, is being compressed, second by sec-
     ond. So, i have to use it wisely...
    
     A gamer plays game not  because  of the graphics,  music, story. but
     FUN! that's certainly who i am. But if a graphics designer plays  g-
     ame, what s/he looks for is good graphics! because graphics is of  -
     his/her interest.
    
     Put aside and ask a musician to play game,guess what s/he looks for?
     you bet! it's music.
    
     and  ask a mathematician to play game, what  will the  interest  be?
     stimulation, how the objects and logic were setup.
    
     ask a philosopher to play game, what will the interest be? as  you -
     no doubt have guessed: Artificial Intelligent!
    
    
     you see, it's all based on your interest. if Zadkiel decided to cre-
     ate a game, he must be certain and well aware of who he's targettin-
     g.
    
     so, is FUN and important factor? not really. I know you might disag-
     reed with me, but FUN is only important in the long terms. Fun howe-
     ver does caught player attention immediately (on their first try).
    
     and in the long terms, it perhaps get them to return playing your  -
     game. And return is a QUESTION of INTEREST.
    
    
    
     kids nowaday sit and play game on web. Flash, Java/javascript for e-
     xample. Why? because it's fun. It was created by kids with the  same
     mind and their lifespan thinking. Sometime, no matter how hard we t-
     ry to think like a kids, we tend to fail. I have a little brother w-
     ho like to create game in flash. He always say "wow! this is cool. I
     think alot of kids will visit my page."
    
     but to me, it's nonsense. the graphics he made is crap. well, that's
     because i'm not him. i don't see game the way he sees it. Nowaday  I
     look into game as of graphics (because that's my life since i was 10
     years old. beside graphics, it's Artificial Intelligent of units an-
     d FUN. and the game best suit me is: Slave Zero. what about music? -
     i can play game with no music. but i cannot handle playing game with
     no sound. there's a different)
    
     "Since this is the future, go with MMX" <-- i said that because he's
     developing his game in 32bit environment, what i think is that he  -
     should go with the best. And at that time of posting, "MMX" is  what
     was on my mind.
    
     game in 16bit environment doesn't need such power. believe it or not,
     there's alot of game in 16bit that are UNBELIEVABLE, it just amaze me
     !!
    
     ---------------------------------------------------------------------
     overall, it's all up to your interest and who you're targetting  when
     you make a game. (there are people who are very picky about GUI:
     "stup*d menu, they should design and make it better."
     "look at that. what is it? dam, pathetic people,they're using the the
     latest directx and still not try to optimize for the best." ect...)
     ---------------------------------------------------------------------
     i will not reply to this thread. this is the last one. you can say  -
     whatever you want. I wish you all LUCK
     ---------------------------------------------------------------------
     one thing i forgot to add: Outlaw is a good game, i like it
     more than quake and doom. I played on Pentium I-120mhz back
     when i was 14.
    This message was edited by disease_2000, on 6/27/2001 8:31:57 AM
    Posted on 2001-06-27 08:02:00 by disease_2000
    Thanks for all the replies. If ye were wondering this is the game I mentioned a few months ago, when the section of the forum was started. Its the space combat game, but you don't have control over the ship directly, you program their AI in whatever language you like once it can access the dll I'm writing to interface with the engine. At the moment its called Raid, but thats open to suggestions. I think I'll go for mmx in a couple of places as I do believe it will speed things up. Disease, I agree with your point, what people expect from a game depends on them, I'm going to try and make this game look as good as I can but to me the physics behind it are more important also I want a powerful API (if thats a fair description) to both allow beginners to easilly get some basic combat routines up and running, but also I want some to let advanced programmer have access to more basic commands giving them more freedom (Like assembly). One more thing, when I last posted about thin Bogdan suggested writing a simple interpeted language for the game, again to help beginners. I don't have the slightest idea how to do this but if someone would like to come on board in this project and help with this aspect then I'd Like that. As for the engine I don't mind having to do that myself, but I'm never opposed to help. And finally, regaring Outlaws, well I never played that game, but in my opinion the best 3D shoter ever is still Duke Nukem 3D, I hope Forever is half as good.
    Posted on 2001-06-27 13:37:00 by Zadkiel