It surely isn't entirely legal, but I've posted some MASM documentation at my web page.
Posted on 2001-07-29 17:38:33 by bitRAKE
Would it be illegal to rewrite the documentation to, say, html? As
long as it *is* rewrite and not just copy+paste, that is...

Just wondering.
Posted on 2001-07-29 18:26:03 by f0dder
Yes, in the US it's technically illegal, even if it's converted manually or automatically to another format. It would have to have some significant changes. I will remove it if I am asked to do so, which I doubt will happen. :) Unless someone here is working as MS, or emailing them. :)
Posted on 2001-07-29 19:03:55 by bitRAKE
I'm of two minds here. Personally, I keep my development tools squeaky clean, meaning I hold valid licences for every tool I do development with. The last thing I want to have happen is to have some company lay claim to my intelectual property because I developed it with their stolen tools, hence they own it.

Hey, I even have a bright yellow EULA for MASM.

Now I well understand MASM is no longer being sold as a seperate product, so it simple is not possible to buy MASM and hence the manuals. And there is nothing that has been so helpful to be (next to Icz's tuts) that taught me how to make MASM get up and rock and roll.

So there is the dilemma. Microsoft owns the rights to a product (the manuals) they no longer sell, and I do not know of anything other then those manuals to recomend to people.

So I'm practical. I have no trouble directing someone to a site containing the electronic coppies, with the proviso that they BUY the dang things should they ever be available again.


Would I post them on my site?

Nope.


Do I think they are warez?

Yes, in a very technical sense, but in a non-harmful one (you don't download them instead of purchasing something).


Am I gonna delete this thread?

What, and delete my own incredibly insiteful prose?
NO WAY !!!!

(Umm, this is Ernie here. Somehow I became unregistered)
Posted on 2001-07-29 19:55:18 by Unregistered
f0dder:

It would be legal if you do it this way: read the manuals, learn everything from them, then write your own book to explain the manual.

The words should be mostly (like 99% plus) your own creation. If you do copy from the manual, it should be clearly marked, should be only to illustrate your further explanation, and most importaintly, you should contact MS and at least notify them, if not ask for written permission.

Obviously, this is such a big undertaking that if I did it I would be expecting cash money at the end, so I'd hold on tight to MY copyright and try to sell the work.


(Umm, this is also Ernie here. Somehow I became unregistered)
Posted on 2001-07-29 19:59:25 by Unregistered
That's my view, too. I own:
Black book of Graphics Programming
Zen of Code Optimization
Mastering Turbo Assembler
Revolutionary Guide to Assembly Language
...and I'd buy the manuals if I could, and have printed up most important sections to read on the go.
Posted on 2001-07-29 20:53:59 by bitRAKE
Zen of Code Optimization
Mastering Turbo Assembler

these sound like interesting books, are they still available? and if so, where can i get them?
Posted on 2001-07-29 21:55:55 by SubHuman
Try Amazon.com
Posted on 2001-07-29 23:03:49 by bitRAKE
Anybody want a legit copy of MASM 4.0 with the manual? :o :o :o
Posted on 2001-07-30 02:05:47 by S/390
Afternoon, Bitrake.

It's possible to have the documentation on the 'net, as long as it's for personnel use only. If you have the info in a page-by-page format, and have a blurp at the bottom of the page warning people that the information is for personnel use only, then it should be OK.:) Having it in download form my be counted as w**rz, unless M$ has given permission somewhere that distribution is alright.

Then again, I could be talking total cods wallup:grin:.

Cheers,
Scronty
Posted on 2001-07-30 02:46:35 by Scronty
"Personal use" doesn't get around copyright protection. After all, no one suggested millions of people downloading MP3's were then setting up CD burning shops to sell the music.

They all just listened to it for "personal use."

Look, we're talking about an obsolete product here. I wouldn't imagine Microsoft doing any more then a "cease and desist" letter for an opener.

If whoever posts the ebooks then ceases and desists, it would end there.

Perhaps it would be more discrete if people just email this file to friends in need. After all, we have lots of friendly people here.
Posted on 2001-07-30 06:45:31 by Ernie
IF manuals(S/390) = 6.11 AND price<=value THEN Sold!

M$ has other worries. :tongue:
Posted on 2001-07-30 08:31:48 by bitRAKE
I just searched for masm on amazon.com but it didn't turn upo anything.
Posted on 2001-07-30 09:01:56 by Hiroshimator
Sorry bitRAKE. 4.0 manual. It's from the 286 days. Not much use today. It doesn't know what 32-bit instructions, or the flat memory model are. :)
Posted on 2001-07-30 10:07:01 by S/390
Mastering Turbo Assembler by Tom Swan (TASM) There is a web site for this book, but there is nothing there and no activity there in a long time.

Zen of Code Optimization by Michael Abrash is out of print, but a more rescent book is Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book (Special Edition).

There is a link down at the bottom of these pages at Amazon.com for Assembly Languages. I usually buy used books from Amazon.
Posted on 2001-07-30 10:12:03 by bitRAKE
SubHuman,

Zen of Code Optimization is out of print. but if you buy "Graphics Programming Black Book" then you will have an electronic version of it. the problem is that it talks about 80386, 80486 and it has nothing to do with Pentium (that's just my guess based on A0A comments on the book).
Posted on 2001-07-30 12:01:23 by disease_2000
Yes, all those book are old. :(
Posted on 2001-07-30 16:28:54 by bitRAKE
Here's a simple test:

e-mail legal@microsoft.com and tell them you would like to make an electronic version of MASM 6.1+ documentation for you're friends and guests to download so we can better acquaint ourselves with MASM programming. If they say "it's okay" or in some other way agree to provide you a license in writing to do so, than it's okay. If they say "No", than it's not okay. If they say "for a price" and you don't pay up, then it's not okay. If you're afraid to ask them, then it's probly not okay.

I don't imagine they would care being as it's obsolete now and it just creates more dependancies on their platform and there're no actice competition anymore (Such as TASM)... but then, I'm not a lawyer.

Thanks,
_Shawn
Posted on 2001-07-30 17:31:01 by _Shawn
Email has been sent.
Posted on 2001-07-30 17:37:19 by bitRAKE
Since Michael Abrash's Graphics Programming Black Book was mentioned in this thread, this might be useful to know: you can (legally) download the pdf version and the source code of the book at http://www.ddj.com/articles/2001/0165/0165f/0165f.htm

m0sk
Posted on 2001-07-30 23:02:57 by Unregistered