Bill,

Your company sounds like the type of company that I worked for in my youth as before I went into business and later into programming, I am a toolmaker by trade. Signs of age is that I was there before the advent of large spark erosion machinery when you machined large blocks of cobalt/chrome steel alloys, heat treated them and usually finished them by hand.

I can sympathise with the situation you are in as a network administrator and I see the culprit as Microsoft for very sloppy programming in operating system design and internet/intranet security. I am yet to be impressed by a bunch of "whizz kidz" forging the new Microsoft way while leaving a trail of debris behind them. There used to be some brilliant programmers in Microsoft with enormous experience but as the quantity increased, the quality went down considerably and the results are being felt by people in your position who have to keep large systems going.

Where I will try and do a hard sell on you is in the people who are starting in assembler as well as some old timers who are coming back to program in assembler again. I am lucky in that I get to hear from a lot of programmers who are coming back to assembler programming and almost exclusively they are after better software, extra reliability, real low level access and they are using it to make useful things that people can use, not destructive things that harm people.

We do have a good range of young guys who have original ideas but we desperately need programmers of your experience as it balances the enthusiasm with sheer knowhow and the two work together well. What I have found is that some of the younger guys who have been tempted to play with viruses turn into programmers with a bit of support and this solves the problem in both directions.

I missed out on the "stoned" generation, used to make me sick but I have an excellent collection of pure malts which do not sit on the shelf gathering dust so "Salute". :grin:

Regards,

hutch@pbq.com.au
Posted on 2001-08-03 19:35:44 by hutch--
Posted on 2001-08-04 01:38:46 by eet_1024
WH?,

I have deleted your message for two reasons, abusive postings here are not welcome and virus glorification is not either. This is an assembler language forum, not a virus coders hangout so please keep any further postings civil and legal.

Regards,

hutch@pbq.com.au
Posted on 2001-08-04 04:02:11 by WH?
eet_1024, linux is not all that hard to set up. If you want to run it as
a server, not workstation (and you shouldn't really run linux as a
workstation, not many people can live with that ;)), it's all about
editing a few files etc. Ok, it takes time, and the documentation is
not really the best... but it's there.
Bind is not the only thing that needs constant updates... there have
been *many* exploits during the time of linux. But hey, there's been
a *lot* of exploits for windows as well.

But if you want security, you should run FreeBSD or OpenBSD anyway.

As for why people don't do this... linux/bsd generally don't offer
easy-to-use graphical setup utilities (unless you use redhat or one
of the other "own me" distributions). Afaik, some of the big commercial
unices do, but these are usually pretty expensive. Also, a thing like
M$ exchange (afaik) offers various group-related features that
might be hard to find on a linux/bsd setup, at least without a lot
of custom programming.


WH?, the problem is that most of the utilities are written with evil
intentions, and are used with evil intentions. bo2k, sub7, all of them.
They aren't just "proof of concept" programs. Sure, a network administrators
job is to fix the network. But this doesn't just mean to constantly
apply new security patches, there's a lot of other problems as well.
It sucks being overburdened with extra work just because there's
some 13-year-old (at least speaking of mental age) who thinks they're
ever-so-1337 because they can take some existing vbscript code,
modify it a little, and release a new "virus". No damn originality :(.
Posted on 2001-08-04 05:46:58 by f0dder
I haven't tried setting Linux as a pure server. I've made about 5 attempts at creating a desktop machine. My luck ended with something not working. I'll be prepared for my next attemp; I actually bought some real books (from O'reily). I'll be installing Debian (the hardest to install of them all) since it allows more configurablility, I've had the most luck with it, and it will force me to learn more throughally (sp?).
Posted on 2001-08-04 06:15:19 by eet_1024
debian is a nice distribution. But it's probably slackware which is
the hardest to set up :). If you want a desktop linux, go for slackware
or mandrake... sure, they both suck when talking security, but they
are a lot more "user friendly" and have better hardware support.
Posted on 2001-08-04 06:20:49 by f0dder
Hutch,

It?s certainly a pleasure meeting someone else from the Tool trade, especially when that
gentleman?s from halfway around the world. Yes, I have re-sparked my interest in
assembly programming . I was very fortunate to discovered your MASM32 package and
I?ve even ventured back (a little) into the shareware thing again. I never made large sums
of money at shareware but it added to the income way back then.

In fact, I have a Fifty Dollar note from your country from a fellow (don?t remember his
name) that bought my File/Directory manager (DOS days) I called BobCat, that was years
and years ago. I keep the bill for ?good times? sake.:alright:


eet_1024, f0dder,

The company I work for is an interconnected jungle of departments strung between two
different manufacturing facilities. These two facilities are one quarter of a mile apart and
connected by way of microwave transmission. These interconnections are of various
hardware such as multiple servers, PC?s, data collectors, time keepers, many types of
CNC machines all working together (well, most of the time!).

Yes, I have considered Linux, but I shudder at the job of changing over and the
unforeseen complications in such an endeavor. :(
Posted on 2001-08-04 08:58:16 by bcraven
Home users ARE vulnerable, if they run Personal Web Server or something like it... I've heard Win2K installs this by default?
Posted on 2001-08-05 08:19:09 by Qweerdy
I'm the truly newbie in the Linux world but with the new graphical installer from Redhat called Anaconda I think it's really easy to install Linux ( as least RedHat Linux 6.1 ).

For your knowledge RedHat Linux 6.1 Server Edition ( the one which costed 249$ is now free ... )

I have it and installed it without pain. The only dificult thing is preparing the partition for Lx. You have to do 6 if I remember, swap,root,user,etc...

Now I run in linux seldomly, the thing that will make me stay with linux the most part of my time is when I'll succeed in setting up my cable modem. I have 2 network adapters ( one for the cable modem and one for my network ) . I've tried to configure eth0 using DHCP but it says " Getting IP Failed ":confused:

I know this post differs a little bit from programming but this would really help me if you find the solution ;)

Salut Turlu
Jp
Posted on 2001-08-05 12:03:00 by JP?
Qweerdy, installed by default perhaps. Run by default, no.

JP, just *installing* linux is the smallest problem of all. Getting it to
do what you want, especially if you have specific needs, is the hard
thing. I could go to bcraven's company and install linux on all their
machines, probably without a single problem. But that wouldn't
really get anybody anywhere...

All linux distritbutions are free, you know. If you get your hands on
a CD, it's 100% legal to copy it. But the companies who make the
distros are free to take any sum of money they want for distributing
it to you... as long as you still have free access to sources etc.

If you don't need linux, stay away from it, that's my best advice.
Unless you're a very curious or bored person :).
Posted on 2001-08-05 12:43:16 by f0dder
JP?:
   I haven't tried setting up for a cable modem with 2 NIC's, but I do know that it's rather easy. Are you using the right cable (crossover/straight)? My friend has used linux for 7 years, and setting up your senerio is second nature to him. Do you have you DHCP client set up for the correct net card?

Good luck.
Posted on 2001-08-07 18:35:44 by eet_1024
eet, with some cable/DSL solutions you get an ATM netcard. Not all
of these have readily available linux drivers.

I'm pretty lucky that my ADSL setup is a modem/router thing over
ethernet... means it works perfectly with all OSes.

Oh yes, then there's also have the issue of PPPoE... which my router
fortunately handles :). signal splitter->modem->router->switch...
works pretty well.
Posted on 2001-08-07 18:40:43 by f0dder