How would the interface of your dream editor be?
Again innovative ideas are welcome!
Posted on 2001-08-06 14:02:55 by MovingFulcrum
You forgot the best IDE: Borland Delphi IDE :)
Posted on 2001-08-06 14:19:44 by rainbird
Delphi, yuck. It's interface designer is about the only positive thing.
The rest of the work environment is filled with tons of useless gizmos
and gadgets that take up screen estate.
Posted on 2001-08-06 15:08:01 by f0dder
This thread isnt just a poll. If someone has any ideas of a really cool interface or would specially like to see certain things to be there in the interface of your dream editor, please shout it out.
Posted on 2001-08-07 01:58:39 by MovingFulcrum
fast, intellisense and lots of programmable keyboard shortcuts

so notepad for me thank you :grin:
Posted on 2001-08-07 06:35:09 by Hiroshimator
Going full screen is a must. Have you used VisioXP? I like those tool bars that slide out when you mouseover, and they can be docked anywhere around the main window or pulled off - awesome stuff! I want a borderless window so I can focus on what I'm doing, but then I want all the gadgets when I want to use them. I'm an 'all or none' type person. :)
Posted on 2001-08-07 08:19:39 by bitRAKE
I agree with RainBird ! Borland makes the best IDE and by the way f0ddder , it's not full of gizmos and useless stuff !!

Maybe you didn't have enough time to experience the real working of that IDE... like any IDE you need a little customization to make it perfect :) I customized mine !!!

Posted on 2001-08-07 11:18:50 by JP?
No, bitRake,
I have yet to see any officeXP tool. But that idea seems quite good. Can you explain it a bit more in detail. Also any advice on how to go about coding it would be appreciated.:grin:

I have never coded in Delphi so i dont know about that IDE, plus my56k modem doesnt allow big downloads. If you could list the good points of its interface and waht you would like to see, it would be helpful.
Posted on 2001-08-07 13:34:36 by MovingFulcrum
JP, I've used delphi since version 2. V3, 4 and 5. And I've never liked
it, no matter how much I have mucked around with it. I simply find
it too clumsy, that's all.
Posted on 2001-08-07 13:38:05 by f0dder
since ther are many wishes, why not code it modular??
the base is a plain text editor with some shortcuts, anything else a plugin, thats deactivateable, so everyone has his custom editor and if something is missin one could yous code it for himself! Imagine you could take the advances of your most loved IDE and remove its gliches by using the plugin copied from another IDE! And were both are lagging functionality, just insert your own stuff!
It is a lot of work, but if you look at the gain, it is worth it and you can have several ppl helping you!
beside of that i would personally prefer somthing like note pad (wich I'm using ATM) just with sime stuff to speed up your work like:
- compile out of it
- line counting and jumping to compile errors
- alort of shortcuts
- outo completition of functionname & a quickhelp on the parameters!
- syntax highlighting

thats all I yould need!
Posted on 2001-08-07 14:50:14 by theNOP
I use PFE right now...

and i am pretty happy with it. Esp at loading huge files speed, and custom options.

1.Speed, Easy to use/switch files, handle huge files
For a big/huge application is sure one will have more then one single file on screen at a time so i will need a way to fast switch bettwen multiple files

I will hardly use (only for money = prostitution) a very big (itself) IDE that has an bloatware i will sure like and IDE made in ASM for ASM ;)

2. Two is a minimim ...MANY is maximum
Having at least 2 view of files open at the same time is a MUST, i like the PFE option to have the same file opened in 2 windows at the same time also (but at diffrent positions in file)

3.Option to view files by cathegory:
- like AI files
- include files
- Win32 files
- Grafix effects files
- dialog files
- save/ load files see one has to be able to define its OWN sections here

Files shoud also be easy viewable by directorys

5. My greatest Dream
Is something like Betov has inside SpASM (not ready yet) or VC++ has partially in its "class view"

That is:
A TREE with ALL Procedures and labels and relations betwwen them ...Xreferenced if possible ... hell 3D if possible ;)

So many times we needed or wanted to do that by hand

VC++ is in its infant stages here (Betov does better in SpASM, but not grafically better only logically) because VC++'s tree its not HIERARCHIC/multiple levels (can not see variables inside functions only globals...doh) and of course it sees no relation between functions ... if they are not clases/methods that is ;)...


I belive this TREE (a left pannel) or Tabs (whatever) concept should be used for all VIEWS (Files, Sections, Xref, Procedures, Class etc)

6. A Clean Environment
I hate when windows/toolbars clutter up my screen (so little) remember not everyone likes to go 1024x768 ... i use 800x600 for example and i still have clients that have 50+ pC with 640x480 only monitors,

Toolbars that insist to dock when i want to make them float around or dock in the wrong positions make me very ANGRY (aka VC++)

also i like to be albe to decide what i need to be on almost ZERO....all of the rest must be selectable from MENUS also

I also belive Delphi environment is better the VC++ but ... allas they are looseing battle with the M$ empire... this shows us clearely that today "very good software" means nothing anymore

Its a world for medium users... medium programmers...medium hummans .... but cryptic eelitez ..... a VC++ World... :(

have you noticed how stupid is that * simbol is used for multiplication pointer referencing and pointer dereferencing in C/C++ deliberately asking for errors? the same with a lots of notations...

and all this "save one byte at source code size" stuff when we have more them 4K or RAM...not to mention that cl.exe "decorates" functions/clases with even more stupid notations from neanderthal...

Pascal/Delphi is much better/decent HLL (if a decent HLL ever exists...) but who cares?
Posted on 2001-08-07 17:29:34 by BogdanOntanu
Betov, if you're preaching against bloat, how come you prefer delphi
to visual c?
Also, get a bigger monitor, 800x600 is hardly a resolution for a
programmer :). 1280x1024@85hz, on my 17". That's a nice res.
Posted on 2001-08-07 17:41:50 by f0dder
Hi !

Well it seems everyone here uses a differ program-group to code
his asm-stuff. So here is what I use:

MED-Editor for editing

I'like its organize of projects based on different languages and its possibility to customize the syntax-coloring. OK it's not perfect at all (I miss some bold-styles there ...)

??? for debugging

This is really a hard question - it is like a religion task on windows ! (I've tried TRW2000, SoftIce, Olly's DB, and some others - I'm not sure which one agrees with me, still ?!?)

Well, what does make an IDE really good ?

- The idea of BogdanOntanu is very good, perhabs some editors
with a programmers-interface can tuned up this way. (The
plugins just have to examine the editor-files and includes ..!)

- Syntax-coloring (I won't miss it never more !)

- A programmers-Interface

- The possibilty to 'code' komplex text-macros (not even a
record and play-implemantation)

- an integrated debugger !!! (On old amiga this was
standard !!!)

- Customizable Toolbars (Nowadays nearly every good editor
has this ability)

- a Code-Database where to put often used text-stuff

- Customizable Menu's, ShortCuts and Icons, ...

- more than one (about 4 ?) clip-memorys

- ... ? ...

This is what I want ...

Greetings, CALEB
Posted on 2001-08-07 18:03:50 by Caleb
I dont know about Betov but I:

I prefer Pascal to any flavour of C...Pascal is a more evolved language ... C is a neanderthal age language: cryptic notations, big design mistakes, etc understandable at its time of design but not today anymore

So unless i can programm in Delphi using VC++ IDE ...and that should be possible because and IDE doesnt have to be for hust ONE programming language...

Anyway i use VC++ curentlly those days (damn) and i can tell you its IDE sucks compared to the last version of Delphi i ever used (3.0 i belive) ... and yeah i have tried to UNINSTALL VC++ completly from my system once....guess what BANG! total system shutdown...i HAD to reinstall Windows to get my PC working again ;)

So i belive that VC++ IDE uses the WHOLE Windows System components (preinstalled in system dirs) ;) while Delphi has to come with them from scratch;)

So this rather long flamable introduction brings me to the conclusion:

an IDE that can be used for ASM and Pascal and C (arghhh) and Forth etc tasks are pretty similar ;)

Besides i like to use and be able to use any resolution i so like...
that was the whole ideea around resizable windows...even if i have a 17 inch monitor i still dont like the small text/windows sizes at 1024x768... doh

some days i even like 640x480 to clear my eyes a little ... as i have destroyed my eyes in time doing programming in front of monitors...maybe you are still young...

also my company and my clients can NOT buy mew monitors for every computer (50+) once every new version of VC++ is released ;)
Posted on 2001-08-07 18:04:05 by BogdanOntanu
bogdan, C is not necessarily more cryptic than pascal. It *can* be,
Especially if you don't rest enough while programming :). Also, C
is so much more "free" than pascal. There *are* a few features
of pascal I miss in C. First, the WITH keyword. Next, unnamed unions.
And third, the pascal units. A lot nicer than the header/library mess
of C.

I feel that programming in C is more comfortable though.

Can't understand your problems with uninstalling visual studio. I've
done that more than a few times without windows formatting, and
I have had absolutely no problems (98se, nt4, win2k). But OK,
we're both using windows, which adds an element of uncertainty
to just about everything ;).

Last thing: delphi code generation is ghey :).
Posted on 2001-08-07 18:22:42 by f0dder
- an integrated debugger !!!

hmm..... but a symbolic debugger for all languages?
Also how am i gonna go about extracting the debug info from all the exe's of different compilers?

an IDE that can be used for ASM and Pascal and C (arghhh) and Forth etc tasks are pretty similar

Actually that is what i have in my mind too, but really how do i go about it. A good IDE should have a symbolic debugger,profiler,etc. How can i go about making a common debugger for all languages which extracts their debug info so that i can have a symbolic debugger and a profiler. Without that there wont be any difference between an IDE and an editor.
Bogdan, Could you elaborate on this point more? What exactly do u mean by an IDE for all languages?

ummmm... bitRake????? Are you there?
Can u paste 2 pictures of visioXP here. One without the toolbar showing out and one with the toolbar 'slided' out. Also could you mark in those pics where is the cursor supposed to be placed to draw out the toolbar?
Posted on 2001-08-08 10:32:44 by MovingFulcrum