Hullo All, Pardon me if this post seems out of place here. This is my first post here and apologies if its been posted in a forum that is not meant to be posted for. I was recently using TR252 (the dos based debugger by Lui Tao Tao). It has a very handy feature called LogPro (a command in the debugger, basically). What it actually does is that as the program executes, it records all instructions into a log file. Now, how can this be build in win32asm? I would assume that it would have to be a program loader (as the source code is present on Iczelion;s site), but to trace each instruction and copy that to a disk file seems pretty impossible (and yet, it is done). Can anyone provide me the guidelines for the algorithm that would be used for building this kind of a trace/log engine. ...Or is it that I will have to learn to write a disassembler first? (though that would be useless, as it would record all instructions). Any leads would be appreciated. Thank you for your time. Regards,
well I can see the direction this s going to and as said in the rules such posts will not be allowed here. Anything else usually is cool :) The focus here really is application creation in windows. This message was edited by Hiroshimator, on 6/19/2001 1:35:52 PM
Hiroshimator, I don't understand what you mean? It seems that he wants to do this in Win32asm?
yes, well I said no cracking too, which is clearly where this thing is for. A disassembler might be a legit coding tool, but as clearly stated by above poster he/she does not wish to do this. There are certain we'd like the forum to steer clear from. So basically if you wish to start a debugger project or something, well, no problem I guess. We just do not wish to encourage cracking here. Edit: it's not that forums for that subject don't exist either ;) Let's just try to keep this focused on programming in win32asm This message was edited by Hiroshimator, on 6/19/2001 2:58:38 PM
Hiro, this may not be going in that direction. For example, I'm deeply interested in the exact same thing? Why? Because I want to be able to log what my program is doing so I can debug it. I don't want to have to add loging functions for thousands of property and method calls if I don't have to. In my case, I'm not being malicious. I'm just wanted to create a log so I can debug and trace frivilous program execution so I can correct it. I don't see how his question is any different than asking how to create an API spy, other than the words he uses. Perhaps if he phrased it to the effect of, how can he hook the api calls and possible some of his internal method calls, would it be more acceptable? I think his question should be acceptable if it's his own program. As in my case, it's my own program. I have to create a detailed COM spy program for my purposes. In fact, I have in mind to use it for automated testing, as well. Who's to say he has any different? Clearly, there are legitimate uses besides cracking for this sort of thing. Nonetheless, how you feel is how you feel. But I don't agree with jumping to conclusions without verifying his intent. Obviously, people can lie about it. In which case I understand you are just being cautious. _Shawn
As I intended but obviously didn't bring across: any win32asm program that is not cracking intended will not have any opposition from me. That includes debuggers and full dissassemblers since they're programming tools. I'm just trying to keep the board as clean as possible and focused on programming for programmers by programmers :) Obviously I read something different in the first post then the rest. I just don't want to see any: hey do I crack this or do I have to set a breakpoint there... There are enough forums that deal with that, so this forum doesn't need it. This message was edited by Hiroshimator, on 6/20/2001 4:05:29 PM
Nonetheless, how you feel is how you feel. But I don't agree with jumping to conclusions without verifying his intent. Obviously, people can lie about it. In which case I understand you are just being cautious.well, we'll never be sure of that so it doesn't really matter. You're right that some knowledge needs to be pursued and I'm sure you all can draw the line between scholarship, profit and l33tn3ss. Yes, I wish to block a lot of 'whiners' and 'lamers' as I feel it. Don't forget that as per request by multiple of you this board does not require registering. That's cool, but it also sets the door wide open for any warezmonger in need of some crack to get his quick fix. You perform it, they will come. Basically I hope you feel the same way too, it will be your board they will invade, not only mine. I greatly appreciate input, since I'm just another human being and (especially) I too am in need of guidance and counsel when certain paths have to be chosen. I hope I'm a bit clearer now in my intentions.
To err on the side of caution is more preferable than to refuse a sound judgement and pay the price thereof. You are correct. We don't need lamerz coming into this boardroom and taking over. That's not educational nor is it practical. His question isn't clear on his intent, I don't know if it must. However, he'll have my support as long is it's noble. I do not support malice either. One of the reasons that makes this board so compelling is it's lack of malice. How many times I've been to the Yahoo! programming rooms and it's fool of hate, anger, pride, morons, crackers, sex, and whatever else. I'd rather have this board clean -- and learn and teach from it. Thanks, _Shawn
D2K, I'm not hyper. I personally don't feel that Aimless was going in a direction of cracking on this matter. However, I'm not really sure. I'm eager to see answers on this question myself, I'm quite the interested party. However, *if*, Hiro is correct, then I don't want to see answers of malice is intended. Hiro mustn't of felt completely that way becauset he thread wasn't closed. Perhaps I took it too far...? Well... anyway. _Shawn
you know i was just kidding around.
Yes, you do have to create a disassembler. You want to write the mnemonics to a file, therefore you have to convert the binary instructions to text with tables and calculations. To do actual tracing, you'll want to look into int 0, 1, & 3 to see if they still work in protected mode (not just real or V86 like DEBUG). Another solution would to modify an existing 32 bit debugger to include a file dump option. This message was edited by eet_1024, on 6/21/2001 2:39:06 AM
hiroshimator what do you mean when you say ~win32asm~??? i'm not sure with this but i think of ASSEMBLER in a 32bit microsoft enviroment... ASSEMBLER is about no rules man! who gives you the right to decide whats the best for the socalled ~win32asmcommunity~??? i know youre leading this neat forum (yeah in iczelions name) but it was ICZELIONS beseen board which helped me alot learning ASSEMBLER in windows... there ppl could ask questions like "how can i get ring0" without a postmodifying vb-guy whos preventing everything what he thinks is ~not good~. greetings drcmda
the only reason this thread isn't closed was that it is in the grey zone: I may have my thoughts but Aimless didn't express his intentions towards a non-allowable thing, in fact he even asked if it was allowed what he was posting or not. The object of his questioning itself isn't really bad either, I ackowledge that, so no reason to close...yet. So my first response actually was more of a 'this is what you may do on this forum' then anything else. Sure I have my own opinions, but don't let those stop you :) This message was edited by Hiroshimator, on 6/21/2001 5:41:11 AM
hiroshimator what do you mean when you say ~win32asm~??? i'm not sure with this but i think of ASSEMBLER in a 32bit microsoft enviroment... ASSEMBLER is about no rules man! who gives you the right to decide whats the best for the socalled ~win32asmcommunity~??? i know youre leading this neat forum (yeah in iczelions name) but it was ICZELIONS beseen board which helped me alot learning ASSEMBLER in windows... there ppl could ask questions like "how can i get ring0" without a postmodifying vb-guy whos preventing everything what he thinks is ~not good~. greetings drcmdaI'm not leading anything, I just happen to pay for it and have offered Iczelion help in extending his forum, which he accepted. Win32Asm certainly isn't a term coined by me. And rules are everywhere, the 'no-rule world' is a concept that doesn't work. The reasons I ask not to post on certain topics are explained above. Freedom of speech is utopial as well. Maybe you should stop focusing on the fact that cracking isn't encouraged and turn around and look at the programming side a bit. That's where it's about... programming? Damn it, I'm getting sick and tired of having to defend myself for trying to keep a nice and clean environment for you all. There are messageboards enough where you can ask this stuff, why do you still need it here? drcmda, if you really would like an asm forum that focuses on cracking (which can easily be a forum an se, given the huge amounts of traffic these things tend to get after some time), why don't you just set one up yourself? That way you and I would have the best of both worlds: this forum keeps 'clean' and you can pursue your other interests at your leisure. It would also keep this forum safe from shutdown, such as happened to +Sandman+'s one. Unfortunately, your intense personal study about the subject, namely me, hasn't yet brought me new insights. *sigh* Better luck next time :)
very nice... noone will close your board if someone wants to know how he can code a trace prog in asm... what have all this things to do with cracking??? cracking is a technique to hack protected progs i think and i can fully understand why you don't want to have this stuff here and i agree but you really have to throttle your heuristics because its very risible having you crying on all posts that are more sophisticated than commoncontroll32!
well as I said above... go right ahead with the debuggers and dissassemblers.. just keep it in the 'scholarly spirit'. It's the best I can do to explain what I mean, since I'm not really a native English speaker :) Just be wary about 'those other posts' (kinda like the dark side :D) and what they could do to the board. This is the message I'm trying to send :) Can you all agree on this? This message was edited by Hiroshimator, on 6/21/2001 7:46:22 AM
My $0.02 worth (even if I am english!) I think Hiro is 100% right, he manner might be a bit lacking :) but his point is valid. 99.9% of my time on this board is spent answering questions, along with that I am talking to MovingFulcrum on a problem he has via ICQ as well as the infamous Steve Rowe - who is still trying to get started. I come here mostly to help. It gives me a nice warm feeling inside to know I have given someone a helping hand, and occasionally I'll ask a question myself. I do not like the idea of people wanting to write cracking software, I have actually written a few commerical programs, and the idea of it being stolen is awful - it's like having your house broken into (I should know it's happened to me twice!) There are very few messageboards/newsgroups which don't have junk posts all over them. This board is the exception rather than the rule, which I find a sad loss for the whole community. How long do you think Iczelion, Hutch, Hiro, BogdanOntanu, Ernie, myself and all the other regulars here would stay if junk and cracking was allowed? I'd give it about 10 minutes... We have a good quality messageboard here, no banners no rubbish, just good conversations about windows programming and assembler. let's keep it that way. umbongo
umbongo is right. that's one of the reason why this forum actually becomes my main HOMEPAGE! can you believe it?
woohoo! a convert :D ;)
I do not like the idea of people wanting to write cracking software, I have actually written a few commerical programs, and the idea of it being stolen is awful - it's like having your house broken into (I should know it's happened to me twice!)I agree with Umbongo here. I started programming just to learn about it, this was back on the Apple //e. Around '91 or so, I started advancing as a result of cracking and such. I suppose, at the time, to get so detailed with the system and hardware I had to have a tangeable purpose. It's what got me started on Windows, not what keeps me going. Anyway, I started to calm down a bit once I started getting good at what I did and took my skills to application programming. In about '96 I worked for a company and they needed some program made for them. I spent 3 months writing a very original program. I stored it on their company web server so I can move it around with me wherever I go. Well, they brought in a new programmer to help me with it. Once he learned that I had it on the webserver (something no one else knew) he took it and changed all my name references and gave it to the company as if it was his. Well, the money I was supposed to receive for it went to him and they told me that it took me 3 months of working on it, and he comes in and within 5 days he's almost complete. They also released me from the project and would not let me explain. Well, he couldn't maintain the project or enhance it and eventually the company went under. I learned from it. As a programmer, I try to respect the hard work and intellectual property of other programmers. Yes, I've pirated software in the past, sometimes it's too prohibitively expensive to actually purchase. If hadn't of done that, I wouldn't event be a programmer today. Today, I pay for almost everything I own, despite the costs. Having learned from that, I've gotten into philanthropy. However, there are few instances when I want to profit, and I mean few. For those instances, since I consult, I do make sure there is software enforced licensing. It's less likely to be cracked when it's corporately private. When I release my first piece of software commercially, I will take whatever precautions I can and then accept the fact that if someone wants it, instead of paying $50 they would rather steal it and complain about how expensive it is in the meantime. I don't condone it. I watched a company I worked for called GoLive Systems, Inc. go out of business because of it, and they had an awesome tool. Less than 5% of millions of trial downloads actually were purchased of their CyberStudio product and when updates were released, 100% updated. They ran out of money after 2 years and Adobe acquired them and they changed to their product name to Adobe GoLive. I lost my job their because they couldn't afford to keep their employees. People don't stop to think about how it upsets the economy. My $.02 _Shawn