ps: contributions are welcomed.
Posted on 2002-04-13 10:59:23 by r00t
I was in a bad mood the day I replied, my apologies.
That said, the fact that several ppl replied with "check it in softice or a debugger" implies one of two: 1) nobody has the relevant docs you're looking for and finds this approach the best, or 2) you weren't as clear about your intentions as you seem to think yourself. Madprgmr's reply seem to indicate the last, while some of the other posts point to the first. So I do hope you'll excuse my "annoyed attitude and resentment towards dumbass newbies" - if not for the first reason then for the other.
In passing i'll just note that what probably got me going was that your last post, just before the one I submitted, seemed to more or less disregard the answers you had already received - hence my comment on being spoonfed commented code.
Must admit I'm prejudiced here - if I was in your place, I'd start out by looking directly at the code, instead of trying to avoid it. Not saying that's the best way around it, just that it's the path I'd take (it can be rewarding at times - I learned about the pe-format by using quickview and a hex-editor. Only later on did I read the docs on it. Needless to say I could've saved hours if I had just read the docs, but that wasn't really my concern)
Anyway, if you ever need someone to treat you like a newbie, I'm here for ya. I got plenty of disrespect and arrogance to pass around (altho I'm hardly much of a programmer).

Regards
Fake
Posted on 2002-04-14 08:31:55 by Fake51
Originally posted by Fake51
I was in a bad mood the day I replied, my apologies.

Alright, I reacted accordingly ;-)

Originally posted by Fake51
1) nobody has the relevant docs you're looking for and finds this approach the best or
2) you weren't as clear about your intentions as you seem to think yourself. Madprgmr's reply seem to indicate the last, while some of the other posts point to the first.

Yes, I see - I considered already that I might have
been too vague ...never mind.
What I am doing now is to combine both ideas:
Use sICE when necessary and use as much
documentation as possible.


Originally posted by Fake51
So I do hope you'll excuse my "annoyed attitude and resentment towards dumbass newbies" - if not for the first reason then for the other.


No problem, it's already forgotten.


Originally posted by Fake51
In passing i'll just note that what probably got me going was that your last post, just before the one I submitted, seemed to more or less disregard the answers you had already received - hence my comment on being spoonfed commented code.


Well, I really didn't mean to disregard any
suggestions. I apologize too if it appeared
as if I disregarded anything. It's probably
because I thought already about using
sICE/ a debugger to get the info I need.
Hence, I didn't think it would be necessary
to comment on that suggestion. Probably
I simply didn't mention my previous considerations
clearly enough.
Never mind !

Originally posted by Fake51
Must admit I'm prejudiced here


Certainly you are :-)



Originally posted by Fake51
- if I was in your place, I'd start out by looking directly at the code, instead of trying to avoid it.


Okay, well - I don't generally avoid looking at the
code, but mostly it's simply damn true that looking
at documentation can save a lot of time. Particularly
in comparison with the "brute force measure" ...


Originally posted by Fake51
Not saying that's the best way around it, just that it's the path I'd take


yeah, I see

Originally posted by Fake51
(it can be rewarding at times - I learned about the pe-format by using quickview and a hex-editor. Only later on did I read the docs on it. Needless to say I could've saved hours if I had just read the docs, but that wasn't really my concern)


yes, that's what I meant by saving time.
It's definitely a difference in people's attitudes...
While I prefer to read a manual on something before
I give it a try, other might prefer to learn by doing.
The latter usually can afford the spend greater amounts of time on the particular problem.
But I agree, taking into consideration that the corresponding "manual" / documentation on your
particular problem does not exist or that it is not
that easily available people like you save time
because they didn't even give the docs a try.
I think, that's why f0dder was implying by his
annotation that I would have been ready
if I had started coding instead of looking for
docs/ replying to postings.



Originally posted by Fake51
Anyway, if you ever need someone to treat you like a newbie, I'm here for ya.


Thanks very much, I am gonna recommend you to
some of my friends - just in case they miss the
feeling to be treated like a newbie ;-)
On the other hand one cannot expect to be proficient
in every area, that's why I generally condemn
such a "anti-newbie-attitude". Ocassionaly also
those gurus have to learn new stuff, and I am sure
they don't want to be considered newbies =)

Originally posted by Fake51
I got plenty of disrespect and arrogance to pass around


OMG, maybe you ought to consider a therapy ;-)


Originally posted by Fake51
(altho I'm hardly much of a programmer).


What I was somehow indicating by my comment
on "wannabe-coders" ...not meaning in particular
you, cause I simply can't know much about you.
But the behaviour to treat people with disrespect
is in my opinion simply too widely spread...
Especially taking into account a lack of real
proficiency in the particular area there is no honest
basis for such a behaviour.

Never mind !
To say it with the word of Counterstrike:

forgiveTA
Posted on 2002-04-14 12:50:05 by MikeJ

ps: contributions are welcomed.


Thanks, I will check out what I can get out of it !!
Posted on 2002-04-14 12:51:09 by MikeJ
Well, im happy and upset.

I'm impressed on how you all countered Fakes' outburst, but I still dont approve of Fakes' behaviour, irregardless if he appologized and had a reason.

Fake:

Let this example be a warning. Your now marked and being watched:
Anyway, if you ever need someone to treat you like a newbie, I'm here for ya.
I got plenty of disrespect and arrogance to pass around


Weather saying this so obviously as a joke or not, the fact remains you *DID*. There is ZERO TOLLERANCE for this behavour. If you were in a bad mood, then DONT POST.

You are free to post your thoughts and opinions as everyone, but where you crossed the line is SENDING disrespect to those who dont think/work the same as you, as well as how you would go about doing things.
(altho I'm hardly much of a programmer).

This only compounds the fact. F0dder is an excellent programmer, and he only left his opinions by simply stating "IMHO, .... ". And this is just it, be HUMBLE.

I sugest you start to realize that there are MANY different people each with unique ways of getting a job done. The most efficient is NOT an underlying factor. If MikeJ has his apraoch and decided to use the information as he saw fit to do so, he DOESNT NOT NEED TO JUSTIFY IT TO ANYONE.

While I *DID* mean you will now be watched, I dont want this to scare you. Its up to you now; if you show good attitute and respect in the future you wont even notice us MODS are here. However, to continue such simular behavior, you will find there will be alot more friction between us, which will probably end up with you having a hard time to log in :o .

MikeJ et. al:

Two things...

1) No one like to see swearing and cursing. The board filters it, and only leaves you looking less respectful. This is no big deal, but please try to hold back if you can ~ thanx ;) .

2) If anyone finds a simular antagonist, PLEASE PRIVATE MESSAGE ME OR ANY OTHER MOD BEFORE REPLYING. We are here for these purposes and are more than willing to help in these situations.
I find it rather sad how some "wannabe-coders" react so aggressively towards certain postings. I am not a newbie, luckily - otherwise I might feel pretty discouraged ...

Assembly can be very hard to learn as a new commer and the board's main goal is to provide a welcoming environment. We do not want to see more responses like this ~ so please inform us when you find yourself in this position.

Thanx for your time. MikeJ, please continue your work, I would be interested if can you figure a new way out, good luck :alright:

:NaN:
Posted on 2002-04-14 14:51:53 by NaN
Thank you NaN. MikeJ would you please continue. This is a wonderful subject and i am not qutifed to be here so i am out of here but i will be listening because i am very interested about this subject months ago. but it's just so much other things to learn about all at the same time. That's My Problem...

Good Luck
Posted on 2002-04-14 19:57:14 by cmax
Here is a good artilce about loading dlls

http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/issues/02/03/Loader/Loader.asp
:alright:
Posted on 2002-06-11 18:00:55 by pahan
HI MikeJ,

there are some exe/dll-Packers out there and they are doing the job you're looking for. Especially UPX ist one you can get the code for.

Look at the below URL, ok it's for exe-only but maybe there you can get some hints.

http://upx.sourceforge.net/


Hope this helps you.
Keep going.

asmMerlin
Posted on 2002-06-28 10:26:28 by asmMerlin